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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:29 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
Thanks for the support, Mike. After so long, I was getting pretty discouraged. Just knowing that someone cares helps alot.

I've not been able to find any more information on the web, but after your post, I will certainly be spending some time learning more about lilo.

I will also post anything I learn, unless you beat me to it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
Next thing I tried. Changing the lilo.conf... adding the following line:

Code:
disk=/dev/sdb
   bios=0x80


Still the same results. Check that off the list.


Trying to find more information:

Code:
root@tty2[/]# lspci
... some devices listed here ...
0000:00:0d.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 0265 (rev a1)
0000:00:0e.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 0266 (rev a1)
0000:00:0f.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation: Unknown device 0267 (rev a1)
... some more devices listed here ...


Hmmm..... No SATA device listed. I assume that one of these devices is actually the IDE controller for the CD drives, and that one of the other two is really the on-board sata controller. The other one? no clue.


Learn about the drive:

Code:
root@tty2[/]# hdparm /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:
 HDIO_GET_MULTCOUNT failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
 IO_support   =  0 (default 16-bit)
 readonly     =  0 (off)
 readahead    = 256 (on)
 geometry     = 30401/255/63, sectors = 250059350016, start = 0


Uh oh. Inappropriate ioctl for device? I understand that hdparm is primarily usable for IDE drives (hdx), and not drives connected to the scsi subsystem (sdx). I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

Anyway.... hdparm actually should work if the kernel has this ata passthrough patch I've read about. Let's try again:


Code:
root@tty2[/]# hdparm -i /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb
 HDIO_GET_IDENTITY failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device


Oh no. This doesn't look good. Let's try for the BIG ENCHILADA:


Code:
root@tty2[/]# hdparm -I /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       HDT722525DLA380
        Serial Number:      VDB41<changed to protect the innocent>
        Firmware Revision:  V44OA80A
Standards:
        Supported: 7 6 5 4
        Likely used: 7
Configuration:
        Logical         max      current
        cylinders       16383    16383
        heads           16       16
        sectors/track   63       63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:    16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:   268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:   488397168
        device size with M = 1024*1024:       238475 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:       250059 MBytes (250 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA,  IORDY(can be disabled)
        Queue depth: 32
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = 16
        Advanced power management level: unknown setting (0x0000)
        Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=240ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *   READ BUFFER cmd
           *    WRITE BUFFER cmd
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Write cache
           *    Power Management feature set
                 Security Mode feature set
           *    SMART feature set
           *    FLUSH CACHE EXT command
           *    Mandatory FLUSH CACHE command
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    48-bit Address feature set
                 Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
                 SET MAX security extension
                 Address Offset Reserved Area Boot
                 SET FEATURES subcommand required to spinup after power up
                 Power-Up In Standby feature set
                 Advanced Power Management feature set
           *    DOWNLOAD MICROCODE cmd
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    SMART self-test
           *    SMART error logging
Security:
   Master password revision code = 65534
      supported
   not   enabled
   not   locked
   not   frozen
   not   expired: security count
   not   supported: enhanced erase
   112min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT
Checksum: correct




And do you think any of that information is useful? Well... maybe, but not to my limited knowledge.



One more thing..... Even though the startup goes so fast I can't tell what's flying by, I do catch a glimpse of a number of lines that start with "raid 6: ", that appear right before the screen fills up with the "mount: " errors listed above. Does this mean anything? I don't know.


Maybe it points to SATA/SCSI drivers? My BIOS and on-board SATA controller support a basic RAID configuration, but in the BIOS I have RAID disabled. All of this information is quite interesting, but hasn't helped me find a solution yet. Maybe one of you guys will see something that I'm missing :(


This has been a public service announcement by one citizen that is becoming very dissappointed in his very expensive boat anchor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 3161
Location: Warwick, RI
Hi,

Why did you put it on sdb instead of sda ? That may require special numbers for the drive mapping for it locate it.

Also, try only enabling just one sata in bios. (port 0 for sda?) The raid messages are there just to scare the devil away :)

You sound like you are basicly knowledgable about linux, at this stage is the level we are at, basic. KnoppMyth hasn't entered the picture, yet, only Debian. Once you are up and running, I think you will like the reward for hanging tough.

Have a great day!

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:36 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
I do not believe I had a choice for putting the drive on sdb. Unless there is a jumper I need to move, or some bios setting that I don't know what it would be called.

I thought that it might have been a problem, that's why I tried adding "disk=/dev/sdb bios=0x80" to the lilo.conf, but there was no change.

As soon as I noticed that the drive was sdb, I wondered why the pc was assembled like that, so I opened the case, and behold.....

SATA 0
SATA 1
SATA 2
SATA 3

Four SATA connectors directly on the motherboard. The drive is already connected to SATA 0.

During POST, the "Detecting IDE devices" step, it shows nothing on channel 0, my ATA cd-drives on channel 1, and the SATA harddrive on channel 2.

Unless one of the other sata connectors will cause the drive to be connected as sda (highly unlikely), then I think there is no way for me to change that. I decided to blame it on the creepy motherboard engineers.

I have done some extensive searching for debian and linux support, but I cannot find anything useful for these symptoms that I have not already tried.

I currently think that the problem is with drivers or kernel modules, but I'm pretty stumped.

Any suggestions?

A friend from church is coming over tonight to work on it with me. Maybe that will yield some better results.


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 Post subject: Yep, it's SATA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:54 pm
Posts: 29
I had the same problem with my ASUS A8N-VM CSM. You're right -- it's not able to mount /, because the SATA driver is not available at boot time. Two solutions. One is to recompile the kernel with the SATA driver built in. The other is, as sinspot1 cryptically mentions, to add the module to initrd.

To do this, boot from CD-ROM and quit out of the installer.
Mount your drive: mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/sdb1). cd /mnt/sdb1/boot.

Mount the initrd filesystem: gunzip initrd. mkdir /mnt/initrd. mount -o loop initrd /mnt/initrd.

Copy the appropriate kernel module from the /mnt/sdb1/lib/modules/2.5.15-blah-blah-blah/kernel/drivers/scsi into /mnt/initrd/modules. I don't know what the right module is for you; for me it was sata_nv.ko (nvidia)

Add the line
insmod /modules/sata_nv.ko
(or whatever the module you need is) to /mnt/initrd/linuxrc, BEFORE the line which mounts the / filesystem.

umount /mnt/initrd
cd /mnt/sdb1/boot
gzip initrd
chroot /mnt/sdb1
lilo -v

Now reboot and you should be on to the next issue.

If anyone knows an easier way of adding a module to initrd, please let me know!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:26 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
Wow! That is a fabulous answer. This looks like the most promising suggestion I have seen yet! See.... I knew somebody would have the same problem as me.

Maybe it would be a good idea to include more sata/scsi support in the installation by default?

About the module, I was looking for a kernel boot parameter to load a module... silly me :)

This will be the first thing I will try once I get home tonight... and yes, I will post my results here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
Ah, yes..... as it turns out, this was only part of the problem. I'll explain, since this may be helpful for other people (I might even start a new thread... if it seems to be worth it).



1.

I followed nybbler's instructions for loading the sata driver module.

To find out which driver module you will need, boot from the knoppmyth cd and type "lsmod | grep -i sata"

This should show you which of the sata modules are loaded, and how many devices are connected through the module.

----

This resulted in the driver loading, but then the screen was filled with

Code:
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault
Segmentation Fault


And then the same kernel panic.


2.

After what seemed like an eternity of reading website, forums, and man pages, a friend and I stumbled on the idea of forcing the linuxrc to dump to a prompt so we could do some stuff step-by-step and figure out what's wrong.

This was accomplished by making sure that the ash shell was in the initrd image (just like copying the sata module files there as above), and then I edited the linuxrc, adding the following line before the kernel panic (ash was in the /static/ folder already):

Code:
/static/ash -s


This basically interrupted execution of linuxrc until we exit ash.

From the ash prompt, you can run sh or bash to have some more flexibility. (I had been trying to figure out a way to do this from the beginning, I just wasn't sure it was even possible)

----

Once we got that far, it turns out that the SATA harddrive was connected to sda and NOT sdb!!!!!!

How the heck?!?!?

Well, anyway, I don't know why it was sdb from the knoppmyth cd and sda when booting from the harddrive, but now we know what to do.

3.

I edited the fstab to mount all of the partitions from sda instead of sdb. I edited the linuxrc (inside the initrd image) to mount the root filesystem from sda.

lilo.conf did not need to be updated, since lilo was installed from the knoppmyth cd while the drive was sdb.

----

This allowed the system to boot and finish the post-installation configuration, but sound and video were still not working correctly.

4.

Downloaded and installed the nvidia linux drivers from the nvidia website.

----

Now everything is pretty much hunky dory.






<big sigh>




~whew~

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Mike, if you hadn't posted that message, I surely would have lost my mind. Thanks for keeping me sane and helping me get on the right track.

Nybbles, thanks for the explanation on how to get into the initrd image. Just getting that tip opened alot of other doors that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.

If I could, I would take you guys out for dinner.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 3161
Location: Warwick, RI
Hi archibald,

If all it takes is a little encouragement, you got it :) I must admitt, Your extra steps in trouble shooting impressed me. Thank you for the detailed feedback also although I am curious as to what some of the main hardware you are using.


Somewhere a long the way, I had "assumed " (that bites us everytime) that the fstab was set for sda ....

Coffee is fine, no sugar..

Have a great day!
Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:06 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:12 pm
Posts: 12
:D

The computer is:

Acer Aspire E360
MBA: I think it is a re-branded Foxconn, but I can't find much about it
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3800 and 1GB ram (2x 512M chips)
Display: nVidia Radeon X600 chipset
Sound: nVidia NFORCE (works with nVidia drivers, but not working through alsa)
HDD: Acer (looks like a re-branded WD) SATA 250GB
1x CD-ROM/DVD-ROM
1x DVD +/- RW

Anything I missed?

Video and sound were not working until I downloaded and installed the 32-bit drivers from nVidia's website.



I had previously changed the fstab to use sdb, since the hdd was connected to sdb when I booted from the cd. This was more or less a moot point, though, since the kernel panic was occurring in the linuxrc, when it tried to mount the root filesystem, so the fstab hadn't even entered the picture yet. It would have just been the next problem to deal with.... and easier to troubleshoot, too!


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 Post subject: Thanks archibald!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:24 am
Posts: 5
Location: Wheeling, IL
I also have a nVidia based MB (My newest computer).
I fought with it for days and then your fix!

It is fun when you actually learn something new.

Again, thanks.

_________________
Athalon XP 2600
512MB RAM
ATI 9000
Sony DVD Burner
3ware 7506-8
1 Segate 200GB Knoppmyth
6 Segate 200GB Raid-5 (1TB!)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:54 pm
Posts: 29
Oddly enough, my system uses sda whether booting from the CD or from the hard drive. Possibly the BIOS "helpfully" reserves the first device on all buses for the boot device, thus bumping SATA 0 to SATA 1 when booting from other than SATA.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:42 am
Posts: 2
Adding sata_nv.ko to the initd worked for me too. I fought with this issue for 2 days before finally finding my way here!

Thank you nybbler! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Thanks!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:07 am
Posts: 132
Location: White City OR
I finally got some time to work on this, and I wanted to tell everything thanks who was working on this issue.

I followed the directions nybbler posted, and it worked perfectly! As he stated on to the next issue!


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 Post subject: sda sdb
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:01 pm
Posts: 1
maybe the drive letter changes because on install the usb / card reader driver is loaded early giving the usb flash drive sda, on restart this drive module hasnt been loaded so the sata drive becomes sda?

maybe im wrong but it does seem to be a likely explanation why we are all having issues with this...


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