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5.5 Fresh Install--no shell window *EDIT*
http://forums.linhes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18863		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Harbinger [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  5.5 Fresh Install--no shell window *EDIT*
Hello, again...

I decided to wipe the old system and install 5.5 fresh (nForce 2 mobo, 512MB RAM, FX 5200 video card. Dvico Fusion 5 Gold + PCI card). The last version installed and found my hardware A-OK, so I wasn't expecting any problems on that end. I was just having the HD playback stutter problem and hoped it would go away with the new install.

I'd installed using the command line "knoppmyth desktop=1024x768 depth=24 tv." I chose auto-install and all seemed to go well. I get menus, can go through setup okay (except it doesn't want to populate the channel list from the listings source), but get a black screen on "Watch TV." I did a Ctrl-Alt-F1 to do a shell window, and get a message from the monitor, "Input not accepted." So, it seems the modeline is probably set up wrong. When I open a shell window from the desktop, I can't seem to find the X11 directory. It's not under /etc as I'd thought it was.

It's been a while since I fooled with the box, but I don't think I've forgotten that much already...
Author:  Harbinger [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Brain attack
Okay, so I HAD forgotten some things...

Never mind the "Can't find X11 directory" problem, as it was listed at the TOP of the directory listing (I was looking for it in the X's at the bottom).

However, I still have a question. I didn't see the "old" style xconfig file (I think it was called XFree86-something-4.conf. I did find an xorg.conf file. I take it that is the file I will edit to tweak my monitor settings? And, I also take it that I can't use the older file I'd backed up from the last version?
Author:  ceenvee703 [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brain attack
Harbinger wrote:
I did find an xorg.conf file. I take it that is the file I will edit to tweak my monitor settings? And, I also take it that I can't use the older file I'd backed up from the last version?


You take both things correctly. It might be safe to copy a modeline over from the old-style config file to xorg.conf, or make some other simple edits to make xorg.conf more like your previous file, but that's about all.
Author:  Harbinger [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brain attack
ceenvee703 wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
I did find an xorg.conf file. I take it that is the file I will edit to tweak my monitor settings? And, I also take it that I can't use the older file I'd backed up from the last version?


You take both things correctly. It might be safe to copy a modeline over from the old-style config file to xorg.conf, or make some other simple edits to make xorg.conf more like your previous file, but that's about all.


Okay--thanks for that info. I guess I'll be doing some editing tonight.
Author:  jzigmyth [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
If you have just a monitor installed and no tv, you might want to try a clean auto-install again from the menus and not use the command line. Knoppmyth may very well detect everything correctly. No editing of xorg.conf needed.

The X11 directory appeared at the top because the X11 name starts with a capital letter. All capitalized entries appear in alphabetical order and then all lower case entries in their own alphabetical order below that.
Zig
Author:  cliffsjunk [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5.5 Fresh Install--no shell window *EDIT*
Harbinger wrote:
I'd installed using the command line "knoppmyth desktop=1024x768 depth=24 tv."

The "tv" option is what you use when you want the output to be compatible
to a standard def TV set. The "tv" option selects 800x600 resolution and
yet it looks like you tried to force it to use 1024x768.

If you want to use a TV set for output just use "tv" not even "knoppmyth tv"

This will make you use 800x600 on you monitor if you have one.

Cliff
Author:  Harbinger [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
jzigmyth wrote:
If you have just a monitor installed and no tv, you might want to try a clean auto-install again from the menus and not use the command line. Knoppmyth may very well detect everything correctly. No editing of xorg.conf needed.

The X11 directory appeared at the top because the X11 name starts with a capital letter. All capitalized entries appear in alphabetical order and then all lower case entries in their own alphabetical order below that.
Zig


I'd planned to add the TV output option after I got the system set up on a monitor. That's why I'd used the TV option. Thanks for the explanation about the capitalization as well. I should have known that... :)
Author:  Harbinger [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 5.5 Fresh Install--no shell window *EDIT*
cliffsjunk wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
I'd installed using the command line "knoppmyth desktop=1024x768 depth=24 tv."

The "tv" option is what you use when you want the output to be compatible
to a standard def TV set. The "tv" option selects 800x600 resolution and
yet it looks like you tried to force it to use 1024x768.

If you want to use a TV set for output just use "tv" not even "knoppmyth tv"

This will make you use 800x600 on you monitor if you have one.

Cliff


Ah, that explains it. I was confused. I should have just used the TV option since I eventually want to hook up to my standard def TV. Thanks for the clarification!

I'd gone back in last night and edited my modelines in xorg.conf to match those in the old XF86config-4 file that worked under the last version. That file had only three modelines--640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768. After a reboot I still got the blank screen and "Input not accepted" dialog from the monitor when doing Ctrl-Alt-F1. I'll just reinstall with the TV option and see how that goes.
Author:  jzigmyth [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
It turns out that modifying xorg.conf to work with TV out is what screwed it up (at least for me). Here is my procedure:

When you install Knoppmyth from CD do NOT have your TV connected (use a computer monitor). Do NOT enter TV at the boot prompt, just hit enter. This will create an xorg.conf file that will work with your computer monitor. Setup your tuner card and channels as usual. Get it all working on your monitor. The default xorg.conf worked fine for me.

Next, all you have to do is shut down, connect your tv to the svid out, disconnect your computer monitor and turn the box back on.

The nvidia card drivers (mine is FX5200) recongnize that you have a tv connected and scales everything correctly! you don't have to create any special modelines, you don't have to tell it your tv's refresh rates, you don't even have to tell it to use TV out. It Just Works! 1080i, 720p, all of it!

If you want to switch back and forth between montitor and tv, you can do it with the computer on. Just switch the cables and then blindly hit cntl-alt-backspace. That will restart the frontend and re-sense what is connected to the video card. This worked with r5f27 as well as my r5.5 install.
Zig
P.S. the TV option is useful if you only have a (standard def) tv to use for the install and you need the lower resolution to be able to read the setup screens on the tv _during_ the install.
Author:  tjc [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lets not toss the baby out with the bathwater here, just because something "works" for you doesn't make it an ideal solution. Using a tuned set of modes which eliminates or minimizes scaling can greatly improve S-Video output quality. The differences are often dramatic, as any number of threads over the few years have borne witness.
Author:  jzigmyth [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
tjc wrote:
Using a tuned set of modes which eliminates or minimizes scaling can greatly improve S-Video output quality.
Point taken, but I can't imagine how the picture quality could be any better. I have 3 atsc tuners and over-the-air hd broadcasts look as good on the s-video output as any stand-alone-DVD-player movie, connected via s-video.

Perhaps analog SD broadcasts have more to gain from tweaked mode lines?
Author:  Harbinger [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
jzigmyth--

Thanks for the info. I'll have to try that out.

My reinstall using the parameter "tv" only at the boot prompt didn't change anything that I could tell. Ctrl-Alt-F1 still results in the "input not accepted" message from the monitor, and trying "Watch TV" now gives me guide info and source info but only a black screen.

Your mention of the nvidia drivers automatically scaling for the SVideo output brings up a question I'd had--and maybe this belongs in a separate thread. I'd wondered how output resolution was selected when you tuned to a 1080i channel (CBS) and everyone else at 720p. On the monitor I want to watch my source at the highest rez I can. I know that SVideo can't display those higher rez signals, and was worried that setting the "tv" resolution during setup would prevent me from getting a higher-rez monitor signal. So I'm guessing that, if you select as a modeline the highest rez your monitor can handle, that any signal rez that's higher will be automatically scaled down for the monitor?

I'd edited the xorg.conf file to comment out all modelines except the three I'd used successfully under the last Knoppmyth version, but that didn't appear to work for me after a restart. I guess the newer version of Xorg does some things quite differently from the last one.

LOL, it seems that every other version of KM is hit-or-miss for my hardware config. Two versions ago things didn't work without major manual tweakage, the last version everything worked immediately after the install, now this one is back to tweakage again. Maybe I should try to apply to beta the next version... :)
Author:  jzigmyth [ Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Harbinger wrote:
So I'm guessing that, if you select as a modeline the highest rez your monitor can handle, that any signal rez that's higher will be automatically scaled down for the monitor?
Yes and any signal rez that is less than the monitor will be scaled up to the mode line selected for your monitor, too.
Harbinger wrote:
Ctrl-Alt-F1 still results in the "input not accepted" message from the monitor, and trying "Watch TV" now gives me guide info and source info but only a black screen.
Me thinks maybe these are two separate problems. It seems a little odd that when you do Ctrl-Alt-F1, your monitor says it can't display the signal it is receiving. Is this the same monitor you have always used on the myth box? Do you have any other monitors that you could swap in at this point and see if it can display that signal? (its ok to plug and unplug monitors into the video card while everything is turned on) When myth is booting can you see all boot processes scrolling by or is that stuff not viewable, too?
Harbinger wrote:
"Watch TV" now gives me guide info and source info but only a black screen.
This doesn't really sound like a mode line problem, but more of a tuner configuration problem. Schedule a recording and then wait till the recording is finished. Go and see if the recording shows up in the "Media Library". Does the thumbnail video in the "Media Library" exist and play? Is there an actual file in "myth/pretty" and another one in "myth/tv" that corresponds to the recording and does it have a reasonable length?
Are you sure the "starting channel" in "mythtv setup/input connections" is set to a channel that exists and has good signal strength?
See this wiki page:
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php? ... WatchingTV
try viewing live tv and then check the logs:
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php? ... ngLogFiles
And of course you have already read tjc's hints and tips:
http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18453
Author:  Harbinger [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
jzigmyth wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
So I'm guessing that, if you select as a modeline the highest rez your monitor can handle, that any signal rez that's higher will be automatically scaled down for the monitor?
Yes and any signal rez that is less than the monitor will be scaled up to the mode line selected for your monitor, too.
Harbinger wrote:
Ctrl-Alt-F1 still results in the "input not accepted" message from the monitor, and trying "Watch TV" now gives me guide info and source info but only a black screen.
Me thinks maybe these are two separate problems. It seems a little odd that when you do Ctrl-Alt-F1, your monitor says it can't display the signal it is receiving. Is this the same monitor you have always used on the myth box?


Yes, this monitor has always worked.

jzigmyth wrote:
Do you have any other monitors that you could swap in at this point and see if it can display that signal? (its ok to plug and unplug monitors into the video card while everything is turned on) When myth is booting can you see all boot processes scrolling by or is that stuff not viewable, too?


Unfortunately I don't have any other monitors to try. I can see all the boot messages up until the time the nVidia logo displays, just before the desktop loads.


jzigmyth wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
"Watch TV" now gives me guide info and source info but only a black screen.
This doesn't really sound like a mode line problem, but more of a tuner configuration problem. Schedule a recording and then wait till the recording is finished. Go and see if the recording shows up in the "Media Library". Does the thumbnail video in the "Media Library" exist and play? Is there an actual file in "myth/pretty" and another one in "myth/tv" that corresponds to the recording and does it have a reasonable length?


I will have to try that this weekend. I've gotten a little busy with work over the last week, but that will die down soon. I've also found in my limited experiments last weekend that, once I select "Watch TV" I can't escape back out to the MythTV menu--the screen stays black. At that point I've done the Ctrl-Alt-F1 and, typing blind, logged in as root and rebooted the machine from there.


jzigmyth wrote:
[Are you sure the "starting channel" in "mythtv setup/input connections" is set to a channel that exists and has good signal strength?


I scan for OTA channels first, as suggested in another thread, then do the "scan listing source for channels" step. The setup menu shows channel 2-1 as the startup channel, which is valid and receives great signal when an ATSC OTA tuner box is used. By the way (possibly unrelated), when 'mythfilldatabase' runs after mythtv-setup, it seems to take a lot less time to run than in the last version.

jzigmyth wrote:
See this wiki page:
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php? ... WatchingTV
try viewing live tv and then check the logs:
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php? ... ngLogFiles
And of course you have already read tjc's hints and tips:
http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18453


I started through the first wiki ref and things seemed to match up A-OK. Again, I'll have to try more this weekend. I did notice an error in dmesg (I think) from module 'nvidia' that the ACPI daemon couldn't load, and prompted me to 'check the manual.' I was having a hard time trying to find the manual being referred to...
Author:  tjc [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Probably time to post your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log files.
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