Since the summer I've toyed with the idea of making some sort of PVR rig. I've been doing a lot of reading up, and after pulling together some estimates I've found it'll cost me a heluva lot more than I expected. I'm a high-school student working part-time for minimum wage.... money is an issue. My parents wouldn't put money into one of my geeky projects that are extremely wasteful.... I don't particularly NEED a pvr... I just want it really really really really bad.

So I've only just experimented with linux before (things like installing mandrake to dual boot on my computer and never using it.... ever...). I would however like to learn some more about it, just for the sake of of it. I decided a linux rig, specifically a myth-tv box would kind of throw me into the fray, and seeing as how knoppmyth has done all the compiling and most of the ugly work for me, I decided to try it. I haven't invested any money into this yet, just lots and lots of time.

I've figured I have a few options:
1- Buy a tuner card and put it into my windows rig and buy snapstream. Cheapest way to get some TV-recordings, but not quite living up to my ideals.
2- Buy the cheapest computer I can manage and use a tuner card with hardware encoding (Hauppauge PVR-150 maybe) and get a video card with TV-Out to get it to a TV.
3- Buy a nice rig and tuner card (Hauppauge PVR-350 probably), and set up a fully capable PVR, with a possible 2nd tuner (PVR-150).

I've been leaning towards a mix of 2 and 3. I priced it out using newegg and tigerdirect for stuff and ended up around 800+. Quite pricey... and probably superfluous...
Case- Desktop ATX case with 380W PS, 2x5.5in external slots, 1x3.25in external, 3x3.25in internal (definitely looks like a PVR, and has plenty of space for expanding and adding extra hard-drives.
MOBO- Intel D865PERLL (4 slots for DDR ram in case I need to expand for some reason, 5 pci slots: more than enough for my ideas)
Procc- Intel 2.24 GHz @ 533 MHz FSB
HDD- cheapest I can find from a good MFG for 200+ GB @ 7200 rpm
Tuner- Hauppauge PVR-350 (use for TV-In and TV-out.... but from what I've read that might not be the best idea...)
DVD+RW- cheapest I can find from a good MFG

So here's some issues I'm coming up with:
1- TV-Out on the 350 is still very finicky and difficult at this stage of the development for ivtv, but when it works it's excellent.... for mpeg2
2- I will probably end up transcoding most of the shows I record as I won't really need DVDs for most of them.... and playing non mpeg2 on the tv-out of the 350 is bad juju....
3- This proposed rig currently rivals my gaming-rig, so a friend of mine suggested saving up to buy a totally new computer and use my current rig for PVRing and messing with linux.... but that'd be pricey.... and well do I really need this suggested rig to be very powerful if I only really plan to stockpile some of my favorite tv shows in xvid (seinfeld, family guy, mst3k, athf, etc.) and watch them as I feel like it....
4- Buying a real TiVo would cost much much much less than my current setup, and even with a lifetime subscription it still costs less, but it's not as modular and expandable and reconfigurable.... RIGHT?!.... I'd like to think this custom PVR would be more tinkerable and with all those extra plugins for mythTV capable of playing mame and snes roms and all that jazz... I might end up using the PVR rig I make now as just a backend later and bulding a cheapo rig for a frontend.... which gets me to another issue....
5- If I separate the backend from the front-end, the PVR-350's remote would not be quite as useful seeing as how it could only work on the backend....

I figured I'd post this in off-topic because I don't want to post this in the wrong spot.... if any mod thinks this would fit much better somewhere else PLEASE move the thread to where it will get more attention...

So really. I need more opinions, especially educated ones.... I'm kind of bewildered, and the sheer cost of this just keeps growing as I look further into my setup.... I'd like to keep this sub $500 but I know that's probably going to be difficult and will require I knock back on some features I might want....

HELP!

Sub $500 is doable if you keep the specs. reasonable.

For NTSC a cheap Athlon/Sempron will work fine. Get a motherboard with a lot of builtins like the Chaintech 7NIF2. 256Mb of RAM is OK and 512Mb is more than enough. I'd recommend looking for the quietest case that will fit in the budget so we'll spec that last. The PVR-250 is the easiest way to get things going and thats a $ to save pain equation. You'll want at least a CD ROM drive, DVD ROM drives are ~ $30, and DVD burners are roughly $60. Give me few minutes and i'll generate a wishlist for you...

OK, here is a shopping list from NewEgg. Don't forget to try Mwave too. I splurged on a super quiet CPU HSF, and a big quiet HD. The case also has screw holes so you can replace the 80MM fan with a 120MM one to make it quieter too. Don't know about the PS however. Video (with TV-Out), sound and networking are on the motherboard. For an extra $35 you upgrade to a DVD burner, or double your RAM. BTW - you can get cheaper RAM but Kingston is very reliable stuff so I splurged another $6-7 there. I also cheated and didn't include any IDE cables. The total comes out around $505.

APEX Super Case BLACK Mini Tower Case with Allied 250W POWER SUPPLY 2 FRONT USB, Model "TM-163" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Case Type: Mini-Tower
Color: Black
Material: Steel
Drive Bays: 5.25'' x2,3.5''(External) x2, 3.5''(Internal) x1
Expansion Slots: 4
Front Ports: USB2.0 x2
Power Supply: Allied 250W
Cooling System: Rear 1 x 80mm
Motherboard Compatibility: Micro ATX
Dimensions: 15.4x7x14.2inches
Special Features: Intel Approved Chassis 3GHz; Side Pannel w/ Airt Guide more info-> N82E16811154016
$35.50

CHAINTECH "7NIF2" nForce2 IGP Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: Socket A AMD Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP Processors
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 IGP + MCP
FSB: 400/333/266/200MHz
RAM: 3x DIMM support Dual Channel DDR400/333/266/200 Max 3GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 4X/8X, 3x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,6xUSB2.0(Rear 2),1xLAN,1xVGA,1xTV-out(S-Video),1xGame,Audio Ports
Onboard Video: GeForce4 MX GPU + TV Encoder
Onboard LAN: 10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet
Form Factor: Micro ATX more info-> N82E16813152020
$75.00

Hauppauge PCI TV Tuner Card, Model "WinTV PVR 250" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Interface: PCI
Ports In: TV In+S-Video In+Audio In+Remote Receiver In
Remote Control: Remote Control
Accessories: Composite via S-Video Adapter, Remote Control, Remote Receiver, Driver CD, Manual
Supported OS: Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP
Retail Box (See pics for details) more info-> N82E16815116602
$140.00

AMD Sempron 2300+ 1.583GHz, 256KB L2 Cache Processor - OEM
Specifications:
Model: AMD Sempron 2300+
Core: Thoroughbred
Operating Frequency: 1.583GHz
FSB: 333MHz
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/ 256KB
Voltage: 1.6V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket A
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: OEM(Processor Only) more info-> N82E16819104202
$62.00

Kingston ValueRAM 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Kingston
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 3
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 32M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820141425
$31.77

Seagate 200GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3200822A, OEM
Specifications:
Capacity: 200GB
Average Seek Time: 8.5 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: IDE Ultra ATA100
Features: 350 Gs non-op shock, 3D Defense System
Manufacturer Warranty: 5 years
Packaging: OEM more info-> N82E16822148032
$120.00

SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive, Model DDU1613/B2s, OEM
Specifications:
Read Speed: 48X CD-ROM, 16X DVD-ROM
Interface: E-IDE/ATAPI
Buffer: 512KB
Access Time: 80-220ms DVD, 165ms CD
Data Transfer Rate: 1,800~3,600 kB/s (CD), 8,788~21,632 kB/s Single Layer, 5,586~13,520 kB/s Dual Layer
Features: Compatible with all CD formats
Packaging: OEM Pack Drive only (see pictures for details) more info-> N82E16827101124
$26.00

Arctic Cooling CPU Cooler For AMD Athlon Socket 462 up to 3400+, Model "Copper Silent 2M" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Compatibility: AMD Athlon Socket 462 up to 3400+
Dimensions: Fan:80x80x37mm, Heatsink:84x76x41mm
Rated Fan Speed(RPM): 1400-2800
HeatSink Material: Copper Core/Aluminum Sink
Rated Voltage: 12V
more info-> N82E16835186105
$14.99

Thanks a lot!

Now would a setup like this be fairly safe, as in Tier 1 (no flashing the bios, no compiling drivers on my own, etc. etc.)?

And for ram I think I'm going to buy 2x512 and put that in my gaming rig, then swap out the 2x256 I have in it now into the PVR.... 2 birds with one stone. My current ram is samsung and works fine.

I think overall the biggest problem was I kept favoring intel and downplaying AMDs in my selection and that just led me astray.

And another problem I have is with supersizing.... you know.... they ask if you want to supersize for a quarter more...... well I always think "hmmm should I go a little bit faster for a little bit more money. I need somewhere to draw the line. For my capabilities (running 1, maybe 2 hardware encoding cards, recording shows and most likely transcoding them down just to watch on the PVR, burning some shows to DVD), I think a setup like this would be much more appropriate. It really helps to have a different opinon on the matter.

Search for "reference platform". http://mysettopbox.tv/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1990&highlight=reference+platform

The main risk is Hauppauge's seemingly constant changes to the PVR-250.

The box is spec'ed to be expandable later once you're hooked. Space for another HD, extra capture card(s), possibly a better video card or a PVR-350, ... For HDTV you'll need a faster CPU, (3Ghz or btter) but other than that it leaves plenty of room for growth, although if you pile enough stuff in you'll probably need a bigger PS.

I don't even have a satellite or digital cable.... just the extended basic cable (so like 60 channels)... I'm sticking to ntsc broadcasts, and I think I just might need to expand hard-drives and probably get a second tuner (probably the 350 once the driver support is better). In my tinkering I might try to set it up as the backend and get a different front-end, or run it as a frontend and get a different backend, probably set it up on the network so that all my windows pc's can get content from the PVR (that's what samba is for right?). I think with the new specs this could be do-able.... although my friends scoff at using a sempron... (judging that the most processor intensive thing I'll do is transcode I don't think that'll be an issue).

Most of the folks doing HDTV are actually getting OTA broadcasts. I think there may be a few getting unencrypted QAM from cable with the Air2PC card. getting HDTV from satellite or digital cable is a whole 'nuther thing which is not what I was talking about.
Sempron is essentially just the left over Athlon XPs that they didn't sell yet, and the processor spec'ed is overkill as it is. Tell your friends that you're too smart to waste money killing flys with 20 lb. lump mallet when a flyswatter works better, and don't have to compensate for ...uhm... "feelings of physical inadequacy".

I'm running 3 PVR250s on an XP2400 and don't doubt I could throw another one or two at it without issue (aside from perhaps heat related problems). Now, I'm not decoding on mine as it just sits in my rack as a backend, but with a good video card I'd think the 2300 would be more than sufficient.

Later,
Gonz

I had one pvr250 and one software based card in an athlon tbird 1700+ and it rarely went over 60% utilization when recording two shows and playing back a previously recorded show, so the sempron would be more than enough unless you're doing hdtv.

_________________
Have a question search the forum and have a look at the KnoppMythWiki.

Xsecrets

The shows I plan to record won't be in HD anyways, and I'm not really enthralled with the amount of hard-drive space it'd take... plus I'm running this on whatever TV I can manage to get, nothing high-quality... thanks for all the input. I actually was talking to someone today about the whole thing, and he came across some article somewhere that the Semprons were actually built such that the average consumer would get more efficient use of it, IE it's a better choice for computers involved mostly with media etc. etc. Now I just gotta order all the parts and get it up and running. I'm so anxious...

Yeah so I took those recommends and changed somethings (for the worse it would seem)

I got the 7NIF4, a SATA HDD, a cheap samsung DVDRW, and the rest was the same.... and this rig has caused me nothing but trouble....

Well I am glad I decided to stick with an ide drive and the nif2 board. sempron 2300. just waiting for its arrival.

Should have asked... SATA is known to be problematic, that was just... unwise. Good DVD drives are so cheap that there's no point in penny pinching there, go for compatibility first and then look for a bargain. The motherboard change... since the 7NIF2 became unavailable shortly after I wrote this... I might have made the same call, but my first inclination would have been to search the tier 1 and 2 topics for another "known working" option.

Have you tried contacting this guy? http://mysettopbox.tv/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3773