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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
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Hi everyone:

Recently I heard about Knoppmyth and decided to give it a try. I downloaded the program, gave it a shot and, quite frankly, I'm not sure I know how to configure it and run it. I apologize for asking some very basic questions, for most of you guys. Any help will be very much appreciated.

My idea is to capture and record HDTV signal (non-encrypted), coming from my Scientific Atlanta HD8300 PVR, through the firewire port. I have been doing this in Windows environment, it works, but with a lot of flaws (video pixelation, audio dropouts). Somebody suggested I try Linux and Mythtv, and here I am.

My inital questions would be:

1. Has any of you guys had sucess recording from an HD PVR box, through firewire?

2. During installation, if I select Frontend, my understanding is I'd be running the whole program from the CD. Where does the recorded material go then?

3. If I go Auto Install or Manual Install, would that automatically overwrite all the Windows data on the hard drive of my selection (something I'd like to avoid, if possible)?

Again, any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Don


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:22 am
Posts: 232
Location: SF East Bay, CA
DonR wrote:
2. During installation, if I select Frontend, my understanding is I'd be running the whole program from the CD. Where does the recorded material go then?

3. If I go Auto Install or Manual Install..


2. NOPE. That's used when you have another machine with a Backend running. .. as the name suggests.. it's "frontend only". The backend would be a machine that has the disk storage for your recordings. (It can also have a "frontend".)

3. Linux can be a little tricky in getting dual boot to work.. but it can be done. ABSOLUTELY, manual install". (auto install will want to re-partition and re-format your drive!). I find that the native partition tools are a bit clunky.. I like to use either "partition magic" (the commerical product for windows) or use "g-parted live cd" to setup your partitions. Keep in mind that you want the "myth" partition to be large!.

Personally, I would avoid the dual boot scenario.. maybe that's just me!

Do check your other references:
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/
http://mysettopbox.tv/pamphlet.html

Best of Luck!

_________________
// Brian - Hardware:
ASUS P5P800 - P4 3Ghz, 500 GB PATA HD
ASUS P5K-V - P4 Core2 Duo, 500 GB SATA HD
Hauppauge PVR-350, IR Blaster, Comcast Digital Cable
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/KnoppMyth/
KnoppMyth R5F27 >> R5.5


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
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So, I would have to create a new partition, using Partition Magic, or similar, and then install Knoppmyth from the CD to that parttion, right? How will I be booting the system up? From the Knoppmyth CD, I suppose, and then the program will use that new created Linux partition, for both the application itself and the storage...am I right?

Sorry for asking so many questions, Linux is pretty much new to me. This new partition...can I create it on any hard drive in my PC (not necessarily on the Windows bootable drive)? Also, am I to create the 4 partitions (as stated in Manual Install) using Partition Magic (or GParted Live CD), or create them from the Knoppmyth CD, when I run it?

Thanks for your reply and help.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:22 am
Posts: 232
Location: SF East Bay, CA
DonR wrote:
So, I would have to create a new partition, using Partition Magic, or similar, and then install Knoppmyth from the CD to that parttion, right? How will I be booting the system up? From the Knoppmyth CD, I suppose, and then the program will use that new created Linux partition, for both the application itself and the storage...am I right?

This new partition...can I create it on any hard drive in my PC (not necessarily on the Windows bootable drive)? Also, am I to create the 4 partitions (as stated in Manual Install) using Partition Magic (or GParted Live CD), or create them from the Knoppmyth CD, when I run it?

Thanks for your reply and help.

Cheers


RIGHT! The boot record would give you a boot menu that let's you select the knoppmyth or windows. WARNING: It is rather dangerous! Be sure you have a working backup! .. Including a windows boot restore capability.
A better "Plan B" would be to remove the windows drive and instert a clean disk drive for knoppmyth... then you could use the auto-install. (which windows are you running?.. newer ones are "difficult" to get past the installation key, etc.)
and RIGHT .. but under Linux, the two partitions look like one device, since they are "linked" when you mount the second partition. (that's not very good "linux speak" but I think you get the idea.) (swap is transparent .. and "cache" is not longer used.. as I describe below.)

< Sorry for asking so many questions > no worries mate! That's what we're here for! :D

Actually, you'll want at least the root ("/") partition to be on the bootable drive. .. and likely the "swap". Mounting the "myth" partition from another drive in the middle of the install will be tricky. (I haven't made the attempt!)
We don't use a "cache" partition anymore.. so it's down to three!
As I suggested, you "can" use the partition tool on the installation CD.. but it's rather tedious. ("g-parted live-cd" is a downloadable CD image .. and an easy google search!)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:55 pm
Posts: 1381
Location: Farmington, MI USA
BluesBrian wrote:
A better "Plan B" would be to remove the windows drive and instert a clean disk drive for knoppmyth... then you could use the auto-install.
Without knowing DonR's skill level in either Windoze or Linux I would have to say this isn't the better plan, but the plan. If you have a 20+ Gb drive you can sacrifice for testing this would be the way to go.

Try the various installation methods on the sacrificial drive, do a lot of Googling for "Linux dual boot" after you are comfortable with the manual installation, and then STOP! Think it over once more :wink:

Cecil and Co. intended KnoppMyth to be used as an appliance (HTPC) to run MythTV and it's plugins (See http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/). Installations intermingled with other OSes is left as an exercise for the user, and not intended for those without a verified backup plan in place!

After all that, I'm certain you will truly enjoy the fruits of your labor (the learning experience).


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
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Thanks a lot guys! One thing is for sure: I'm not going to just blindly jump into this. It appears that there may be quite a few obstacles on the road to glory.

A few years ago, I installed Red Hat Linux, on top of my Windows, wanting to learn more about Linux. The bottom line is, in the end I had to reformat my hard drive, because the dual boot was acting up. Fortunately, I had everything important backed up. So, I'm definitely gonna be pretty cautious about this.

To answer BluesBrian's question, I'm running Windows XP Home Edition.

One more thing: since I have 2 hard drives, I may have an option of completely emptying and reformating one of them. So, if I now use this empty drive to partition it and install Knoppmyth on it, and make it bootable, would the dual boot work? You know what I'm saying: boot to Windows from one hard drive, or to Knoppmyth from another, or do these boot partitions have to physically be on the same hard drive?

Again, thanks a lot, guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:55 pm
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Location: Farmington, MI USA
DonR wrote:
One more thing: since I have 2 hard drives, I may have an option of completely emptying and reformating one of them. So, if I now use this empty drive to partition it and install Knoppmyth on it, and make it bootable, would the dual boot work? You know what I'm saying: boot to Windows from one hard drive, or to Knoppmyth from another, or do these boot partitions have to physically be on the same hard drive?

Again, thanks a lot, guys.
I would definitely err on the side of caution - Make one drive your Windoze drive and the other your "test" drive, completely independent of each other. When you want Windoze hook up that drive and boot the computer, when you want Linux hook up that drive and boot. This way (hopefully) nobody gets hurt :wink:

I say this with the impression that you want to try out KM and possibly other Linux variants, but mostly use Windoze. This is by far the safest way to go, as you can "Learn By Destroying" and re-install as many times as necessary. After you are comfortable with that you may want to try dual-boot, but the current KM version will not aid you in that endeavor (and I don't know that there are any plans to do so, as KM is intended to be an appliance)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:22 am
Posts: 232
Location: SF East Bay, CA
Yeah.. the
Quote:
"Learn By Destroying"
is probably something that you want to avoid! hahahaha.

I skipped your first question (recording from an HD PVR box, through firewire) because I don't have any experience there! .. so keep asking the important questions!

In short.. yeah, the two operating systems would need to be on the same physical drive. I've also noticed that the KM installer "likes" for the drive to be the first one on the channel.. (as "hda".)

Here's an alternative: ("dual boot" not needed!)
One of my machines is an IDE (PATA) drive.. it's mounted in a drive tray that makes it removable without taking the machine apart. THis make it basically "cold swappable". Unfortunately, PATA versions of this are just about impossible to find.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=529421&CatId=285 ( <<< Ahhh! here's one!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121106 ( <<< Ahhh! and another!!) hmmm, "Impossible" sometimes isn't that hard!
SATA drive trays are much more common today! It's likely that they sell the actual removable try separately.. one tray for each disk drive.. one mounted base unit.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
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slowtolearn wrote:
I would definitely err on the side of caution - Make one drive your Windoze drive and the other your "test" drive, completely independent of each other. When you want Windoze hook up that drive and boot the computer, when you want Linux hook up that drive and boot. This way (hopefully) nobody gets hurt :wink:



I see...so pretty much keep the two entities apart, so that "the worlds don't collide" :) . A little bit more work on hooking and unhooking of the drives, but it is the safest, I have to agree. Thanks.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:22 am
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Location: SF East Bay, CA
DonR wrote:
A little bit more work on hooking and unhooking of the drives, but it is the safest, I have to agree.

If you have a "drive bay" available, then you can avoid that "pain". 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 3161
Location: Warwick, RI
Hi,

Multi boot isn't that difficult but as was advised earlier, use an old "spare" drive to play and learn on before going for the real thing. By using a version of Ubuntu it always gives you a back door to "fix" things.

There may be some information here that you can use.
http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 9477423e51

Almost every question you can throw out has probably been answered a few times so don't be scared to do a search also. It does work, maybe not perfect but it is all great reading.

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 6
In addition, can Knoppmyth be installed to an external, bootable USB hard drive. My BIOS is relatively new, so I can boot up from a USB device (never tried it though). If I can install KM to an external USB drive, this might be the easiest solution, to keeping Windows and Linux worlds apart.

Could I just partition my USB drive accordingly (root, swap and myth) and use manuall install option? Do you guys think this will work?

Thanks for all your help. Cheers!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:59 am
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DonR wrote:
In addition, can Knoppmyth be installed to an external, bootable USB hard drive. My BIOS is relatively new, so I can boot up from a USB device (never tried it though). If I can install KM to an external USB drive, this might be the easiest solution, to keeping Windows and Linux worlds apart.

Could I just partition my USB drive accordingly (root, swap and myth) and use manuall install option? Do you guys think this will work?

Thanks for all your help. Cheers!

Any ideas? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:52 am
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Location: Manitoba, Canada
Don't know about a USB drive. I tried that once and it fudged my main drive. It should be possible though. On my first linux trial I removed windows drive, installed spare drive and installed linux. Once installed I put my windows drive back in as master, set linux to slave. Windows booted normally and when I wanted linux I went into the bios and changed the boot device priority. Rebooted and linux booted normally. I expected to get errors about the path not being the same (installed as C but now running as D) but the bios seemed to take care of all that. No more switching cables. Have since changed things around, running linux all the time and occasionally boot to windows. Don't know if that helps.


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