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 Post subject: digital tuner
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:55 pm
Posts: 245
Location: South Jersey
As February approaches I will need to buy a digital tuner as currently I use the analog tuner on my tv, vcr, and pvr-350.

I've read the forums and there does not seem to be a standard on this. So I have a few questions I hope everyone can help answer.

1) can I get one settop box (tuner) with multiple outputs? (one to tv, one to pvr-350)

2) I've read some brands have firewire or usb control ports. This seems so much easier than trying to get the ir blaster working, true?

3) what brands are recommended? Or should I just go with whatever comcast will provide me?

Thanks!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:48 pm 
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA
I'll be honest Abby -- if you want to record over-the-air ATSC (digital TV) there is no better solution than the HDHomerun product. I know it costs a bit more than the Federal Forty-dollar Box, but the ease of getting it to work more than offsets its modest cost.

Plus, with the HDHomerun box you don't need any card slots, and it features two independent tuners. It is one of my best purchases for my Mythbox.

-- Joe

P.S. If you're a cable user (I see the Comcast reference) there is the drawback that the HDHomerun won't record scrambled channels -- the so-called "premium content" channels. I am not cable-encumbered so it does not affect me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:24 am 
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Ditto on the HDHomeRun reco. I can't say enough about the product. The other advantage is that (depending on your area) Comcast is not pulling the plug on analog just yet. So if you get the HDHomeRun, you don't need to remove the 350 just yet. <sarcasm>I'm sure a Comcast CSR can tell you if analog is going away for your area.</sarcasm>

Liv2Cod wrote:
P.S. If you're a cable user (I see the Comcast reference) there is the drawback that the HDHomerun won't record scrambled channels -- the so-called "premium content" channels. I am not cable-encumbered so it does not affect me.

But you can't record any "premium content" channels either. How is my HDHR any more encumbered than yours?

I'm no Comcast apologist, but I can't get very good OTA HD. I'd need to get a roof-top antenna installed. I've tried most sub-$100 antennas and have returned them all. The rest of the family insists on cable, (Nick, Disney, Cartoon,) and since it's in the house anyway, my HDHR can piggyback and get all the local OTA HD channels plus one or two others, without running wires to an expensive antenna. Sure, if I could find a QAM-Pineapple or even a CableCard-HDHR, I'd be a lot happier, but this is working. ...And once Comcast has you by the !#$%'s for a few years you stop missing them. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:46 pm 
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Location: South Jersey
I don't plan on using HdTV anytime soon. Does this change your recommendation?

Also how are you actually controlling the settopbox? usb? firewire?

I like the dual tuners I think I read about. So I guess you have one to the myth and one to the tv?

Thanks

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Location: Fargo, ND, USA
There may be a bigger problem than a capture card.

MBE-R5.5
P4-2ghz

SBE
P4-2.4ghz

TVBox

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Location: South Jersey
Why is this a problem? Currently it's been running for two+ years without an issue. Why would one more device cause a problem?


I have been looking at a dual core or quad core box to replace the mbe though. It comes down to whether I want to continue to chase the dog through the neighborhood or not. (i.e. pc or invisible fence)
Thanks,

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R6.04, dual core 3ghz, 3 gig memory, Zotac 8400 passive heat sink dvi/hdmi out video, 500 gig sata, dual tuner hdhomerun, streamzap remote

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:35 pm 
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abigailsweetashoney wrote:
I don't plan on using HdTV anytime soon. Does this change your recommendation?

If you have cable and a PVR-350, and you don't plan on going HD, then I don't think you need to change anything. The "analog sunset" is only for broadcast TV. Cable can stay analog as long as they want.

abigailsweetashoney wrote:
Also how are you actually controlling the settopbox? usb? firewire?

The HDHomeRun is directly supported in myth. You plug it in your Ethernet, tell mythtv-setup you have one, and it'll scan channels and control the box over ethernet.

abigailsweetashoney wrote:
I like the dual tuners I think I read about. So I guess you have one to the myth and one to the tv?

No. I put both to myth, then select "Watch TV" in myth, and use it that way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Location: South Jersey
Ok so you put both tuners on the HD Home Run to myth... so you have two inputs on the mbe... what cards are you using there?

I called Comcast less than 1/2 hr ago. They told me that ALL their digital channels are encrypted and that I MUST use their digital box, no other. This sounds really implausible. I mean, if it were true how are you guys using the HD Home Run box??

Thanks.

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R6.04, dual core 3ghz, 3 gig memory, Zotac 8400 passive heat sink dvi/hdmi out video, 500 gig sata, dual tuner hdhomerun, streamzap remote

Abby


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Posts: 359
"HDHomeRun" is one of the of the card types in setup. Is that what you're asking? configuring an HDHomeRun is myth is just a little but easier then setting up your 350.


As for Comcast, that's usually what they tell people. There is some sort of FCC reg, (sorry, I can't quote chapter and verse) that says they are not supposed to encrypt the local Over-The-Air channels.

SO far, without exception, EVERY Comcast and FiOS Rep I've spoken to says "All digital content is encrypted; you must rent a converter box (for every set in your house)" Then when I ask, "Doesn't the FCC mandate that all Over-The-Air channels be carried without encryption?" Then the back-peddling starts, and they generally spout some weasel-worded nonsense and finally admit that yes, local channels are in the clear.

Call me paranoid, but I think they are deliberately misinforming customers in order to drive up STB rentals. I've even filed complaints to the FCC and FTC for deceptive marketing practices. I'm not holding my breath waiting for a response though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 3161
Location: Warwick, RI
Hi,

One thing to consider is the play back of an HD recording. The HDHomeRun will allow you to record digital SD & HD content over the air with no problem and you will have no issue playing back the SD recordings or watch live SD TV.

Looking at your hardware listing, the HD recordings may push more from the 2ghz box than it is able to do smoothly. The video card is the biggie.

Also with the HDHomeRun, any of the myth machines can be setup to use that same tuner. Just have to be careful as who ever talks to the tuner last is the one the tuner asnwers back with the content. So if you were recording something say from 5PM > 6PM and then at 5:30 PM you decided to catch the news from a different box, you just messed up your recording. You would be ok to watch the news on the first box as it would then use the second tuner.

Mine works very well using a RS uhf ~$30 antenna. Cable ota is a quam signal which should also work. I have never bothered as I would loose half of my stations which are not on the cable as quam. Rabbit ear antenna may not be enough for signal as digital takes a higher level than the ol' analog because the eye can filter out the weak snowy picture in analog.

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:45 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fargo, ND, USA
The way I understand her situation is that she is already on comcast analog cable so she has no need at this time to change anything. She doesn't even need a set top box for the TV.

If she trys to record digital TV her hardware would only support Standard Definition digital TV. Where is she going to get standard Definition digital TV from? Here is a low down of digital stations in my area. Over the air or free unscrambled cable both the same.

ABC, 720P, playback hardware is underpowered
CBS, 1080i, playback hardware is underpowered
NBC, 1080i, playback hardware is underpowered
Fox, 720P, playback hardware is underpowered
PBS 1, 1080i, playback hardware is underpowered
PBS 2, 480i, playback is ok
CW, 480i, playback is ok

Yes with a HDHomeRun she could record everything but she could only watch the recordings from two of the above channels with out transcoding. Transcoding a HD recording down to SD takes time with good hardware. My hardware is at least twice as fast as hers and I can not justify the time required to convert any HD recording to SD. I will take a SWAG here but I think her equipment would take 3 to 4 hours to transcode down one 1 hour 10GB 1080i recording down to 2GB 480i. If she transcoded 24 hours a day she would only be able to crank out about 5 recordings a day.

My advice would be to keep your money in your pocket. The FCC requires cable companies to continue to provide local stations in analog as long as they provide any analog service, even after February 17, 2009. So until Comcast drops all analog TV you have no worries. I would take a bet that Comcast will still have analog TV five years from now.

TVBox

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:17 am 
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Posts: 359
TVBox wrote:
I would take a bet that Comcast will still have analog TV five years from now.
I'll take the Under on that bet. -- Depending on where you live.

I'd bet major metro are all digital in another year, shortly followed by the 'burbs in the same areas. More rural and underdeveloped markets will probably stretch it out to your 5-year mark and maybe even beyond. Verizon FiOS has more bandwidth available, meaning more channels and faster internet; Comcast's analog channels suck their bandwidth. Comcast needs to "trim the fat" to compete. They can put about 6 digital (SD) channels in the same bandwidth as a single analog channel; and if they encrypt the channels they can rent that many more STB's.

I was also reading somewhere Comcast wants to move to a different system where all channels are basically Video-on-Demand, in other words they only come down the wire when someone is actually watching them. That frees channel space for more internet and phone, and lets them carry a virtually unlimited number of channels.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:48 am 
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA
jmckeown2 wrote:
I was also reading somewhere Comcast wants to move to a different system where all channels are basically Video-on-Demand, in other words they only come down the wire when someone is actually watching them. That frees channel space for more internet and phone, and lets them carry a virtually unlimited number of channels.

And enhances revenue because the cable co.'s box is the only thing that can make sense of the muddled channels on the wire! I can see them definitely wanting to go in this direction as it essentially knocks all STBs off their system but their own. I just wonder if the FCC will lie down and let them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Virginia, USA
jmckeown2 wrote:
Verizon FiOS has more bandwidth available, meaning more channels and faster internet


Correct, and they got rid of their analog service to do so.

I'd take the under on that bet too. In order to keep up with FiOS et al, cable companies will ditch analog ASAP. What they will probably do to obey the spirit if not the letter of the FCC law, is to do what FiOS did: provide people with a free, no-frills adapter to let older TVs tune in to at least OTA channels (to their credit, FiOS's adapter lets you basically see extended basic cable channels too).

But having said that, I'd agree with TV Box: original poster doesn't need to worry about the 2/9/09 analog cutoff since (a) she is a cable subscriber, (b) they haven't shut off analog cable service in her area (yet), (c) her system is currently underpowered to play back HD recordings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:49 pm 
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Location: South Jersey
1) I don't have any interest in recording HD programs

1a) caveat >> Twenty five years ago I ran a BBS. At that time I argued that I had "no use" for a hard disk drive. :-)


2) Will a dual core 2.4 mhz box handle HD or do I need something above 3.0? Quad core even?

3) If I spend money for a good MBE and put all my tuners on it, can I still keep my P4-2.4mhz as a FE?

Thanks.

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R6.04, dual core 3ghz, 3 gig memory, Zotac 8400 passive heat sink dvi/hdmi out video, 500 gig sata, dual tuner hdhomerun, streamzap remote

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