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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Your script already protects the user by making the original recording into a *.old file.
Only if the user has that setting enabled in the myth db. I believe that setting is disabled by default so protection isn't a given.

Quote:
I am still confused why a User Job made specifically to be executed automatically after a recording is finished will automatically fail every time.
Not all User Jobs are made to be executed automatically. This is one of them.

Quote:
That mythcommflag is not 100% accurate is true...but the removal of ANY commercials automatically is of great use and benefit when the user has to do NOTHING in order to achieve that state.
That makes sense IF that were the way mythcommflag gets it wrong but that is not what I have seen. It isn't that it misses commercial breaks but thinks that part of the recording is a commercial break. There are times where if I had automatically removed commercials I would have lost 15 mins of the show it was recording. That would be completely unacceptable to my family and I would guess most users as well.

Britney


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Location: Virginia, USA
What brfransen said. It would be great if the commercial flagging was such that you didn't have to check it, but it's not that accurate and often cuts into programs. It hasn't generated cutlists automatically for years, probably because of that very reason.

Once you get the hang of it to edit, it's pretty quick and easy to load flagged commercials, check the edits, then save and thus generate the cutlist, then use the script to remove commercials.

You've identified how you could modify the script to generate the cutlist from the flagging automatically, so if you trust the flagging more than I do, go for it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Posts: 821
Location: Melbourne, Australia
ceenvee703 wrote:
What brfransen said. It would be great if the commercial flagging was such that you didn't have to check it, but it's not that accurate and often cuts into programs.


I second this: It's best not to automatically transfer flagged commercials as a cutlist. Broadcasters have in my experience attempted to find new ways of fooling the flagging algorithm and are often successful.

Mike

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LinHES 7.4
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Posts: 77
Location: Dallas, TX
Look...I've been using mythcommflag to generate my cutlist for literally months (possibly the last cpl of years) so I am speaking about what it actually does. Out of the thousands of hours of recordings I have made mythcommflag make a cutlist - maybe 2 or 3 programs have had about 10-20 seconds of actual programming chopped out...seriously in each of those cases...it was NOT a big deal.

The script makes a *.old file out of the original file every time...there is no setting to make it do this. It does it...if you made the script you should know this already...Thus on the extremely RARE case where actual programming is cut guess what...you still have the *.old file to go back to...

As to the efficiency of mythcommflag. I would say that out of the history of my using Mythcommflag to generate a cutlist it successfully captures 75% of ALL commercials and rarely chops out actual programming (its rare that it gets 100% of the commercials. I would say maybe 10% of the time, but it almost never flags a portion of the actual programming). Out of a 2.2GB 1 hour recording it will as a rule reduce the size of that program to 1.5 - 1.6GB 95-99% of the time while yet maintaining the actual programming. With that said...to make as a default a script which will error out 100% of the time when checked is simply silly.

You people BAFFLE me...To make such assumptions based on opinions rather than facts overwhelms me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Location: Dallas, TX
I should also make clear that Im not using Britney's script (I mentioned that in my original post), because A) I'm not sure where to insert the command to make mythcommflag generate the cutlist and B) My script already works and has no need to be modified in any way meaning I can check the user job box for my script and when I get around to watching the program...My script has already chopped out 75-100% of the commercials and is ready for me to watch.

My point to this discussion/thread is to illustrate that in any future distros to make a script part of a User Job Set which fails 100% of the time because it requires some sort of manual support is crazy. As I stated previously...that kind of script should be mentioned in documentation but I assure you...the majority of the user population will A) Not use that kind of script and B) Prefer my script which allows for ZERO support. Users want easy and hands off...not something that requires any sort of maintenance.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:23 am 
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Location: SC
whoa wrote:
The script makes a *.old file out of the original file every time...there is no setting to make it do this.
Wrong. Look at line 161 in the script. The setting is in mythtv-setup-->General-->Job Queue (Global) at the bottom Save original files after transcoding (global). Yours must be enabled.

Britney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:51 am 
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Posts: 77
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Quote:
whoa wrote:
The script makes a *.old file out of the original file every time...there is no setting to make it do this.

Wrong. Look at line 161 in the script. The setting is in mythtv-setup-->General-->Job Queue (Global) at the bottom Save original files after transcoding (global). Yours must be enabled.


What are you talking about?! My reference is to the script I posted at the beginning of this thread. The script you said you made. Line 161 of that script has nothing to do with making the file into a backup using a ".old" suffix

Everything I have mentioned previously has been entirely about that script. Further...the part in that script which makes the backup of the file is here:

Code:
# move temp file to output location
    echo "Moving file..."
    update_comment "Moving file..."
    if [ `$SQLCMD "select data from settings where value='SaveTranscoding';" | sed '/[0-9]/!d'` = 1 ]; then
        echo "DB is set to save transcodeing"
        mv $VIDEODIR/$FILENAME $VIDEODIR/$FILENAME.old
    fi


No...I'm not wrong...

I'm not sure how this could be confused since in my original post I pasted it in its entirety and have only made references to it...and to reiterate...it doesnt work automatically which is basically the entire point to the funtion of User Jobs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:20 am 
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Location: SC
We are talking about the same script and the same section of code. Copy it into nano or another text editor and you will see that line 161 is the if statement that is part of the code block you posted. Based on the value it pulls from the myth db will determine if it creates a .old file or not.

Quote:
it doesnt work automatically which is basically the entire point to the funtion of User Jobs.
Working automatically is not the entire point of User Jobs, just one feature. I know many people that use User Jobs but never use the automatic feature.

Britney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:12 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
whoa wrote:
The script makes a *.old file out of the original file every time...there is no setting to make it do this.

brfransen wrote:
Wrong. Look at line 161 in the script. The setting is in mythtv-setup-->General-->Job Queue (Global) at the bottom Save original files after transcoding (global). Yours must be enabled.

whoa wrote:
What are you talking about?!

brfransen wrote:
Based on the value it pulls from the myth db will determine if it creates a .old file or not.


Ok...so as a default that option is enabled...meaning if someone (aka most of the user population out there) doesnt go into the general settings and disables recordings to be saved in the database then the default behavior of your script is to back it up to a *.old file...Sorry for that assumption. I do tend to make assumptions when they are based on an overwhelming majority. So lets assume that most users out there leave this default option alone, then your script backs up the file to a *.old backup... Next...

Quote:
Quote:
whoa wrote:
it doesnt work automatically which is basically the entire point to the funtion of User Jobs.

brfransen wrote:
Working automatically is not the entire point of User Jobs, just one feature. I know many people that use User Jobs but never use the automatic feature.


I didnt say 'the entire point' I said 'basically the entire point' meaning that tho User Jobs can be used in MANY different ways, however...the majority of people who use User Jobs use them to be executed at the conclusion of a recording automatically. This isn't about you and who you know Britney. Its about usefulness to the general population and to make the assumption that automatic commercial removal with a simple check box on a User Job box is NOT what most people want is basically silly. I know MANY people who look at me like Im some sort of DVR god when I tell them that my DVR removes commercials automatically. Tho they dont own and operate a LinHES system they WISH they did, but because its simpler to pay someone else for their handsfree DVR appliance...they use that. Why...because its simpler...much the same concept with User Jobs...users dont want maintenance and manual operation...they want simple and easy. So to put a script in an area which is basically meant to be used for ease of operation you are only going to frustrate users who want commercials removed automatically.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:37 am 
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whoa wrote:
Ok...so as a default that option is enabled...
No, by default that option is disabled. See here very close to the bottom of the page. Using your assumption that most users leave the default alone there is no backup.

Britney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Location: Dallas, TX
I'm confused...I have never changed that option yet my recordings are saved in the database...further if a users recordings weren't saved in the database then myth would continuously record the same recording over and over which I know for a fact that the default behavior is to record the program once...further again your link takes me to a page which doesn't illustrate how that setting isnt enabled...so basically I'm not sure what your script is looking for in the general settings and finally the question of why wouldn't your script make a backup of the recording file as a default behavior begs to be asked, that is simply irresponsible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Virginia, USA
Quote:
...your link takes me to a page which doesn't illustrate how that setting isnt enabled


Following that link, under "Job Queue (Global)," the last line of the table says "Save original files after transcoding (globally)" and that the default is "not checked"... i.e. don't save original files after transcoding.

Frankly, whoa, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Take the total number of MythTV users, then take just the number of KnoppMyth users, then take just the number of people who even notice there's User Jobs, then take just the people who flag and delete commercials, then take the people who transcode those to remove commercials, then take the people who use a script to do so, and you're probably down to a small number of people, maybe even double- or single-digits. Labeling something that affects such a small number of people as "irresponsible" is overstating the issue.

You want it done one way, Britney is fine doing it his way. Why must you insist he yell "uncle"?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Posts: 535
Location: Ottawa, Canada
ceenvee703 wrote:
You want it done one way, Britney is fine doing it his way. Why must you insist he yell "uncle"?

amen brother. Maybe I am reading way too much in to the emotion (and rudeness) whoa seems to be putting behind this but I think Britney has been unbelievably patient. Personally when I saw the first response which starts off as "before asking your question did you look at the script..." I checked out.

For the record, I do find commercial detection to be sufficiently accurate for my needs but it really depends on your sources. I tend to execute on the cut lists mainly when I transcode to reduce the size of certain shows so I download them remotely to my phone when I'm on the road. The occasional error doesn't bother me.

C


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:18 am
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Location: Dallas, TX
I have put zero emotion or rudeness into anything I have written, further illustrated by not being personal in any way. I ask you to do the same. In discussions where criticism is found (like this one) critical language will result.

I am not attacking anyone to the point of crying uncle...simply I am looking for acknowledgment that bad judgment was used in distributing a script that is not helpful and now seems to be done deliberately.

Quote:
ceenvee703 wrote
Frankly, whoa, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Take the total number of MythTV users, then take just the number of KnoppMyth users, then take just the number of people who even notice there's User Jobs, then take just the people who flag and delete commercials, then take the people who transcode those to remove commercials, then take the people who use a script to do so, and you're probably down to a small number of people, maybe even double- or single-digits. Labeling something that affects such a small number of people as "irresponsible" is overstating the issue.


Are you serious?! Commercial removal is HUGE. Aside from the basic functionality of LinHES I'm not sure what the next biggest feature would be, but I have to say that Commercial Removal would be at the top of the list if more users not only knew about it, but could check a box and Myth does it for them without any messing around...

As I said before...there are literally hundreds of people over the years Ive talked to about Myth and every one of them voiced an IMMENSE interest in having commercials automatically purged from their recordings...even if it were 75% of the time.

Lastly to make ANY assumptions like you did is and always will be irresponsible when trying to make a point. Personally...every user I know who uses Myth uses it for a variety of User Jobs and every single one of them uses it for commercial removal. So tho they may not want to be heard in this fashion, please assume quite the opposite. We ALL have voiced on several occasions how devs seem to write scripts for their needs and not for the general population and when I saw that Britney wrote that script for the express purpose of not being automatic and placed it in a spot essentially used for automating Job User functions...I decided it was time that those voices be represented.

My purpose at this point is to illustrate how this kind of behavior should be changed so that MORE people can and will enjoy Myth without being aggravated so much by trying to understand it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:25 am 
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Location: Virginia, USA
If there are really all these voices out there demanding this be changed, let them post to this thread and be heard. Easy enough. But this groundswell of demand doesn't seem to be happening. This is one of the busiest threads on this forum right now. Why aren't more people chiming in and saying "yeah, this really needs to be fixed"?

Because not all people work like you work.

I never said commercial skipping wasn't a great feature. But there are many MANY ways to skip or delete commercials. Yours is one. Just because there are others doesn't make it wrong.

One other question before I give up on this thread. You have an objection that this script doesn't work if there is no cutlist. How would you propose that the user be given feedback when this, or ANY, user job script fails?


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