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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:18 am
Posts: 77
Location: Dallas, TX
First I ask you to again NOT make this personal...there is zero reason for its need. Secondly asking why more people aren't chiming in is not relevant to the issue at hand. This is NOT about people writing in or adding to this thread. The main point is and will remain the responsible distribution of useful scripts.

To address the question you asked...that is a GREAT point! but one I have no answer for. Its a question that should be posed to the devs of this and all other future distributions, because whatever solution I propose becomes irrelevant since I have no way of following it up nor implementing its outcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 106
brfransen wrote:
Because in the Myth UI there is no way to separate automatic and manual user jobs. If you want a user job to be selectable from the recordings Info-->Job Options menu it will always have the option to be run automatically in the schedule UI.


It seems to me that this is the limitation that is causing an issue. Clearly the script is designed not to be run automatically but the UI allows the user to do just that. Sounds like an bug/problem that needs to be addressed by the mythtv devs, not here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:27 am
Posts: 75
Location: Raleigh, NC
For what it's worth brfransen's script works as I'd prefer. I can say definitively that the commercial marking does on occasion mark significant segments of the show ... often enough that I always review the cutlist before permanently removing commercials.

While we can debate whether the feedback in this thread is personal, it does strike me as rather harsh, particularly given that contributions to LinHes are voluntary. If one is not in a position to make the changes they would like to the functionality, a kinder, gentler approach to feedback might serve as a better motivator. If the script went out and deleted all of one's recordings, I might use a term like "irresponsible," but to cast that judgment, just because it doesn't work like one would like seems a bit much.

Personally, I would like to express my appreciation for brfransen's efforts (and everyone that contributes to Myth/LinHes for that matter), as I derive much value from their contributions.


Last edited by craigtv on Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:42 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
Whoa,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is English not your native language? It just seems that quite often you seem to have misread what others are saying. Also the only person coming across as rude is yourself.

Quote:
brfransen...before asking your question did you look at the script to see what its supposed to do?
Right here at the start you begin to seem rude, especially when it turned out that you were the one who hadn't read it properly.
Quote:
What are you talking about?!
In this post you couldn't recognise the code Britney was referring to, even though you posted it a couple of lines down where it fairly obviously grabs a setting from the database.
I think you should probably try to calm down a bit, take some time to try to understand what people here are trying to tell you and consider whether you might not be right.

In regards to the accuracy of commercial detection, on my system mythcommflag has often incorrectly flagged the period from the last commercial break of a program to the start of the next program as commercials which results in the last 5 minutes of the program being skipped. If I had been using automatically commercial removal the way you do I would have permanently lost the end of the recording.
The developers of mythtv, LinHES and Britney all recognise that although mythcommflag is pretty good, it doesn't always get it right and therefore it would be a really bad idea to automatically delete the ads by default.
You are quite lucky if mythcommflag can accurately detect the commercials in your area, but you can't assume that everyone else would get the same results.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:18 am
Posts: 77
Location: Dallas, TX
@ turpie & craigtv et al...First when anyone starts out anything by saying dont take this the wrong way...they are already making it personal. If anyone else wishes to make a personal statement at me...I encourage you to do so in a PM. It has no business in this thread.

Second if you wish to send your thanks to Britney and again make this personal I encourage you to do so in a PM it has no business being here.

Third the purpose of this thread is to illustrate that tho the script may be useful to others it has almost no business being distributed in an area where automation should be its key function. I believe djb61230 has a decent idea but one I have no way of acting on. I would assume that Britney (being a dev) would take this action seeing as how they are a contributing member and I am not.

Fourth anyone else who feels the need to add to this thread I would appreciate it if you stick to the topic. Benjamin Franklin once wrote "Critics are our friends, they show us our faults". This is in no way an attack on Myth or its devs. It is merely an illustration of where a mistake has been made and should be corrected.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:50 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
@ turpie

Regarding mythcommflag...

First as I have previously mentioned mythcommflag hasn't grabbed programming in 99%+ of the thousands of hours of programming I have had Myth execute in the years of usage I have enjoyed and on its multiple versions. If you find that it works worse than this for your system...seeing as how we are both using the same code...then I encourage you to figure out why its not working as well as mine is. The only problem I have with mythcommflag is that its not 100% accurate at grabbing the commercials but 75%ish of the time works for me.

Second my script (and so should Britney's) makes an automatic backup of the original file so...if there is a problem...I can go back to it and watch it. Also previously stated...

Thus your only problem seems to be with me and the language I use. I would thank you to please confine those opinions to a PM.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 387
Location: South New Jersey, USA
This is better then a new episode of Chuck!

At the risk of going against the tide, I think I will side with whoa on this one (at least on the technical issues however I will agree that he comes off a bit rude and yes that was a personnel comment so no need to reply on that).

The biggest advantage to Myth is its ultimate flexibility and options. We have all made fun of TIVO and WMC and the like as they limit what can and can not be done. The decision to delete commercials automatically with whatever risk there is to the end user's media, should be left to the end user.

It is unfortunate that there is no way to warn the end user when selecting this (or any other) optional job that loss of programming may occur as I see this as everyones main concern in this post. I personally do not use the script, preferring to just leave the commercials in the file and auto skip them. I have seen times when it skips too far and the script would have deleted programming but that is easy to jump back to with the way we use it.

I would think that this decision is based on who else is using the system (the much sought after and at time elusive WAF) and how technical they are. I cant imagine the phone call from my wife when she tells me that while watching Project Runway the final judgement had just been cut off and I need to explain to her how to open a terminal and copy the .old file back.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:52 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
@ Big boy stan Great point. I was kind of thinking about that as well and the only idea I have would be more work for the devs. It goes like this however: Add a section (yeah I know...this is going to be a lotta work but as I said previously commercial removal is HUGE) in mythfrontend where it has multiple options for commercial removal including backup maintenance and restoration of backed up files and in mythsetup have a section designed entirely for how commercial removal should be handled further automating its functionality.

The only other way is to document step by step a process for wifey (or in my case parents over the age of 70) which will never be looked at only because they will want you to do it for them. My plus one doesnt watch too much TV and thinks this whole DVR thing is yet another one of my quirks...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:42 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
whoa wrote:
@ turpie
Regarding mythcommflag...

First as I have previously mentioned mythcommflag hasn't grabbed programming in 99%+ of the thousands of hours of programming I have had Myth execute in the years of usage I have enjoyed and on its multiple versions. If you find that it works worse than this for your system...seeing as how we are both using the same code...then I encourage you to figure out why its not working as well as mine is. The only problem I have with mythcommflag is that its not 100% accurate at grabbing the commercials but 75%ish of the time works for me.
Well I'm guessing that you're in a different location to me (or are you in Bendigo too) and therefore would be getting different programs and commercials. There was one show in particular that I watched with my wife that would do it almost every week. It seemed to be due to the pattern of short scene changes at the end of the program looking like commercials.

whoa wrote:
Second my script (and so should Britney's) makes an automatic backup of the original file so...if there is a problem...I can go back to it and watch it. Also previously stated...
If you're keeping the original file what is the benefit in deleting the commercials instead of just auto-skipping. You have mentioned how impressive a feature like commercial removal is to the public, but I think people are quite happy with the auto skipping of the commercials.
Some users who are transferring transcoded files to their phones or other devices would benefit from smaller files after ads have been deleted, but I don't think they are a large portion of users or even potential users. (By the way I am one of those users as I do transfer a lot recordings to my iPhone but I just put up with fast forwarding the ads.)

whoa wrote:
Thus your only problem seems to be with me and the language I use. I would thank you to please confine those opinions to a PM.
The only reason I mentioned language was because I would cut someone some slack if they weren't using their native language. I know from trying to learn Korean that it is easy to misunderstand someone and getting the right level of politeness is very difficult.
You are right, I should have asked that and let you know that you were coming across as rude in a PM. I am sorry about that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:18 am
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Location: Dallas, TX
@ Turpie
I used to live in MI, now I live in TX, but both places I used mythcommflag and never had the problems I see you all have had. One thing tho that may be a factor is I have been using non-digital programming (as in the cheap cable thats not digital). Perhaps thats a factor?

The purpose is just as you are guessing at. File size. I can take a 2.2 GB 1 hour recording and reduce it down to about 300MB and watch it on my (non iPod) video MP3 player. This is awesome when in the airport or anywhere. Queue up the previous nights recordings which have been chopped up and converted then transfer them on over to my 8GB Video MP3 player...then watch it anywhere! However sometimes I'll transfer them over to my laptop tho and watch them on there. 300MB is far quicker to transfer than 450-600 (obviously) and saves space. BTW all the colleagues I know who use Myth dont actually watch anything on their Myth boxes...we all have it record our shows and transfer them over to "iPods" and laptops for future viewing, but we have been also getting into the streaming aspect by VPNing into our home networks and watching recordings like a fluxbox.


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