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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Location: Salem, MA
I'm looking to upgrade my frontend-only machine. I want something that just works and can play 1080p HD with digital audio without batting an eyelash and without overheating or making too much noise. The Hardware Tier forums are way out of date so I was hoping to get a recommendation over here. Does anyone have something they've built recently that kicks ass?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:54 pm 
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I've built a system using an Acer revo R1600 and my brother built one out more recently using an Acer small-form-factor box that had a dual core atom -- might have been an ACer AR3700, but not certain. Both worked well, although his wouldn't work with LINHES 6, but it worked well with LINHES 7. Both machines are running as combined frontend / backend system using external hard drives and a HDHOMERUN network-connected tuner.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:20 am 
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Location: Arlington, MA
One of the more modern Atom mini PCs with a faster dual core processor (e.g. the D525 at 1.8Ghz) and the "next generation" ION graphics (GT219 GPU core) would be my starting point. A lot of these are small enough that they can be mounted on the back of a monitor or TV that supports the VESA spec.

For comparison the updated system I built last year using an Athlon II X2 255 (3Ghz dual core) and an Nvidia GeForce 210 (GT218 GPU core) is so over powered for the purpose that it's like breaking eggs with a sledge hammer. As a result the one project goal it didn't meet, is being able to live in the cabinet under the TV, because it simply can't get enough air flow there to stay cool.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:01 am 
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TJC's points are all spot-on, but one word of caution: In addition to my Acer Revo R1600 (which is a single core atom + ION) I also acquired a Foxconn SFF box. It has a dual-core atom + ION. The box is very stable under windows but under LINHES 6.04 it does a hard freeze every 5-10 minutes. Requires a hard reset / reboot to bring it back. A bit of online searching found that many others have had similar problems with the FOXCONN SFF box using various mythtv distributions, so it's not LINHES specific. One of these days I'll try LINHES 7.2, but in the meantime, I would stay away from the FOXCONN atom/ION boxes.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:08 am 
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Hey TJC, while we have your attention :-) -- any thoughts on the configuration I documented over here? From everything I have read it will run just as cool and as low of a power draw as an atom+ION platform, but it has the horsepower to do commercial flagging and transcoding without breaking a sweat. Based on what I've seen, it's faster than my Intel core 2 duo E8400 but draw ~25 watts at idle, which is about what an ATOM+ION platform draws. Kind of intriguing.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:48 pm 
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The Intel i3 2100 was on my initial candidate list for the upgrade due to it's excellent performance per watt numbers, but they were much pricier (roughly double) than the Athlon II X2 255, roughly in the same ballpark power wise (both are listed as 65W with the i3 measuring 15-25% better in SPCR tests), and with nearly twice the performance. If the 255 is breaking eggs with a sledgehammer, the i3 is shooting them out of a cannon at a concrete wall. ;-)

It's a fine choice, but it needs more heatsink and airflow than the D525 which is a listed as a 13W part. That's 1/5 the TDP of the i3 or the 255 and why the Atoms can run with a smallish passive heatsink and the i3s need an average sized one with a fan.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:46 am 
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TJC, I'm referring to the i3-2100t, and i3-2120t, not the i3-2100. The "T" series had a TDP of 35W, not 65W. They still need active cooling, but everything I've read says the heatsink is reasonably small. You're right about the price, but I like the idea of having 1 box that can handle frontend, backend and transcoding.

My old E8400-based system is still working well so I think I'l try waiting out as I suspect that intel will keep driving the power consumption down...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:20 pm 
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I missed the T, so at 35W the TDP is only ~3x higher than the Atom. For a frontend only system I'd go as low spec as possible while still maintaining the ability to play streaming content smoothly. Something that you can attach to the back of the TV or put in a component cabinet with no heat problems is a plus. For a combined system a bit more headroom doesn't hurt, but that wasn't the original question.

I'd love to hear from kmkittre and other people using Atom based systems on how well they do with streaming media. Being able to get the media box off the floor and tucked away in the cabinet or behind the TV is still on my wish list. Among other things, I've been watching the Raspberry Pi, which doesn't quite have enough juice to run MythTV or support flash playback, but can play HD content using XBMC, and is about the size of credit card, passively cooled, and only draws about 1.5W! Some very cool possibilities there.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:24 pm 
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tjc wrote:
I'd love to hear from kmkittre and other people using Atom based systems on how well they do with streaming media.


I have a single-core ATOM+ION system running 6.04 -- combined FE/BE. My brother has a dual core ATOM+ION system running 7.1. Send me which streams you want me to try and I'll let you know what happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:52 pm 
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:oops: Sorry, didn't mean to confuse the two of you. It's been a rough week.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:18 am 
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TJC, I hope this week is much better for you!

All, if you look at the power consumption graphs in this article, here is what stands out when comparing the I3-2100T to the ATOM D525 + ION2:

1. Power draw at idle: I3 wins at 10 watts vs. 17 for ATOM

2. Power draw while playing HD video at 1080P: I3 wins at 18 watts vs. 28 watts for ATOM

3. Power drive during GPU (graphics) BURN: I3 wins at 23 watts vs. 30 watts for ATOM

4. Power draw during CPU BURN: ATOM wins at 21 watts vs 34 watts for the I3.

5. Power draw during GPU+CPU BURN: 2-watt difference between the platforms, but ATOM wins at 37 watts vs. 39 for core I3.

6. Performance: I3 wins at 3X-4X the speed of an ATOM.

7. Cost: ATOM wins. Best price I can find today for ATOM is $130 for MB+CPU combo; best price I can find for I3 is $200 for MB + CPU.

7. Cooling options: Atom's are frequently passive. I3's are active, but the stock heatsink + fan are very low profile. (Check out this image). I'm not sure, but it may be possible to find a VESA mountable case that will work with the I3.

8. Build complexity: ATOM wins hands down, as you can by many pre-built Atoms in nice cases at a low price ready to go.

Remember that these comparisons only applies to the "T" series of Intel I3 processors.

Conclusions

1. ATOM wins if you want a frontend or frontend + backend machine that won't be doing any transcoding or commercial flagging. It wins because it is significantly cheaper and you can buy some very attractive pre-built systems. It is also a well-proven platform for mythtv.

2. I3 "T"-series wins if you want to also do transcoding and/or commercial flagging, with one caveat: Expect to take some "early adapter' Bullets. Some people are having fantastic success with this platform; others seem to be having difficulties.

I hope this helps others.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:55 pm 
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The big difference in the numbers seems to be due to the GPU. The I3 uses the Intel integrated graphics and the Atom is using the more powerful and power hungry ION2. Is there support for XvMC, VDAPU, or the like with the Intel graphics?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:08 am 
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TJC, I don't have specifics, but I seem to recall that it has some level of hardware acceleration. I think the key thing is that there are many posting about it handling 1080p playback -- just not sure if it's via pure software or hardware acceleration. Here's once article.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:53 pm 
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tjc wrote:
The big difference in the numbers seems to be due to the GPU. The I3 uses the Intel integrated graphics and the Atom is using the more powerful and power hungry ION2. Is there support for XvMC, VDAPU, or the like with the Intel graphics?


A VERY valid point. I personally wouldn't consider any GFX that wasn't nVidia.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:38 am 
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I have a different perspective. It looks like the I3-2100T CPU is powerful enough to handle both graphics and other heavy lifting like commercial flagging and transcoding. It seems like having a general purpose CPU that can cover what a specialty processor like the ION does gives on more flexibility.

More generally, hasn't this been the industry trend for decades? ie, Over time, general purpose CPU's overtake special-purpose chips on the price/performance curve...

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