Another one is that your Tivo will always just be a Tivo. If you get bored with MythTV, or if you upgrade to newer hardware, your old MythTV box can be a file server, a gaming PC, a workstation, or whatever you want it to be.

I also agree with the notion that a monthly fee, no matter how small, will discourage the casual MythTV installer. Money also tends to amplify the flaws in something. You don't care if your free t-shirt has a loose thread in it, but you probably do if it's your new $25 t-shirt... I'm not saying MythTV is doomed by any means - if I thought that, I'd have closed up shop and not added new products to the store. I'm just saying there's pressure against adoption that wasn't there before, even if slight.

It might also be informative to note that back when we only offered PayPal and not direct credit card transactions, about 1 out of 3 people who created an account did not purchase a product from us. With direct credit card payments implemented, this has gone down to about 1 in 20, and of people who do purchase, about 1 in 50 choose PayPal over direct payment. This is the exact same demographic as the people who would buy guide data. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a problem for SchedulesDirect.

With the goal of reducing costs further, maybe subsidizing program guide costs is something we could suggest that The Linux Fund do?

_________________
KnoppMyth R5.5
MythiC Dragon v2.0
Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

From Schedules Direct:


They will take credit cards, they are just using Paypal to process them. However, if you have a Paypal account, I would suggest using that instead of a credit card. Otherwise some of your money will go to credit card fees and I think we all want to see our money going towards subsidizing the cost of getting the listings, no?

At $5 a month (assuming the cost of TMS data I've seen around is correct) they will only need to sign up 100 ppl. Here's to hoping that much more than that sign up and we save some money moving forward.

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LinHES 8.3, 1 BE, 3 FE

Well I'm definitely in...I can probably subsidize my costs by cleaning the change out of the couch.

_________________
"The amount of time needed to solve a problem is inversely proportionate to the complexity of the solution" -- Me

KM: R5.5
CPU: Athlon 3800+
Vid: nvidia 7300GT
Snd: Chaintech av-710
Tuner: PVR150
HD: 1000gb sata + 750gb sata + 500gb usb

I know. We did, too, and people still refused to buy just because it was PayPal. Others had problems where they wanted to use credit cards, but since their credit card was once used with a PayPal account that had long been forgotten, PayPal wouldn't let them.

PayPal charges companies (not sure about individual accounts) to receive payments no matter how they come in. I think the overhead is the same whether it's from another PayPal account or from a credit card.

Each transaction has a flat overhead fee plus a percentage, too. At PayPal's worst rate (2.9% last time I checked), each $15 payment will look like $14.27 by the time SchedulesDirect gets it. Their proposed $20/year payment would look like $19.12. It changes a bit if their monthly volume increases.

_________________
KnoppMyth R5.5
MythiC Dragon v2.0
Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

I'll be signing up too. Their strategy is one that anyone, even those that think it is too much can't disagree with. They forked out a lot of money to license these listings. They are being very open and honest about needing to keep the price high at first to cover their expenses.
Hopefully most mythtv users will sign up and the price will drop to their goal of $20/year.
If not.... have fun ye scrapers and prepare for a lot of work and downtime when the host site catches and and changes the site around on you!

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ASUS A7N266 Micro-ATX Motherboard
Athlon 2200 processor
512K Kingston PC2100 Memory
MicroAtx Case
2 PVR250's w/remote
eVGA e-GeForce mx4000 (64 Ram with Tv/Out (Svideo))
Lite-on DVD cd-rw combo
120 GB Western Digital

I am not going into my P*ypal rant.

But, I will not buy anything if I have to pay with or through P*ypal.
I would not mind paying with a CC just not through P*ypal.

Under certain conditions I have gotten others to use their account and then repaid them. Whether or not I will go to the trouble for TV I have not decided yet.

I am hoping that their will be a way to pay with a USPS MO. Even if there is a slight charge for it. I pay a little extra ($2 per payment) for XM radio so I can mail my payment in.

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Bitwise Chat "Kwatt"

In my area my cable company (Wow - Wide Open West) is offering a DVR integrated into the settop box. When my wife ordered it it increased our monthly charges by 4 bucks. We will check this out and compare notes.

The good thing is that I now get back my MythTv box and I can mess with it again. It's been a solid system and has only had a couple of glitches since I settled on version R5A31 (if I recall correctly).

This particular cable box has dual tuners so I can record two shows if need be. I have to admit, the price is certainly right, but I'm sure the feature set will be reduced as compared to MythTv.

I may just end up using the Myth box in my computer room but I don't think I can justify a 5 dollar a month charge for just data. Although it's a small price to pay, it's just data...

I wonder how long it will take for someone to simply share out their database. Data is easy enough to make free or copy, so I wonder if this will happen with this new Schedules Direct service. There are a lot of cheap people out there.

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MythRig: Shuttle SN41G2 + PVR-350->TV + KnoppMyth R5Beta7

Just for the record...for those that think "it's just data"

Most business, if asked what their most important resource is, will say, their data, their records, their information. Hence "Information Technology" as an industry.

There building can burn to the ground, and computers be stolen (not necessarily in that order :p) but as long as a company still has backups of it's data, it will survive. But if the data is gone...the company is starting over from scratch. No client lists, no financial records, no HR records...nothing. The company may as well have never existed.

If I grab the database backups from work, you can nuke the place, and we'll be back up and running in a matter of days.

All the physical hardware, personnel, infrastructure can be replaced easily with a little money. The data is the ONLY thing that you can't just replace by throwing money at it.

Much like if a fire hits your home, 99% of your possessions you don't care if you lose. But most people wish they still had their photos, and other irreplaceable bits of information.

/end rant

_________________
"The amount of time needed to solve a problem is inversely proportionate to the complexity of the solution" -- Me

KM: R5.5
CPU: Athlon 3800+
Vid: nvidia 7300GT
Snd: Chaintech av-710
Tuner: PVR150
HD: 1000gb sata + 750gb sata + 500gb usb

That's good for the company. They value their customer data and without it they are dead...but on the other end, what I am paying for is electronic data and TO ME it is not worth as much as is being asked. If they lose their data and go out of business it does not affect me very much. I'll feel sorry for them, but that's about it.

Some say it's worth $5, others say it is not. Back before the cable companies had DVR solutions I would say that 5 bucks was a no brainer. Now that it's only 4 bucks to get a cableco DVR I have to at least take a look at it. If it works out (for me) then I have dual recording capability and I get my PC back. I love KnoppMyth and will find some use for it, but depending on how the Cable companie's DVR does (which the wife uses anyway) I may not end up using my MythTV box like I have been.

Actually, I may use it for everything but watching TV once I get it back. It's got lots of other features that are nice.

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MythRig: Shuttle SN41G2 + PVR-350->TV + KnoppMyth R5Beta7

...so, now you need two boxes going, using more electricity than just using one, and more complications than just using one box for everything...it really doesn't make sense to me.

Though, neither does writing a scraper to get the data for free. It'll take, at least a couple hours to write a decent screen scraper, plus integration into myth...and in that time, I could have made enough to cover paying for a more reliable stream for several years, several times over.

I suppose one could argue, then if time is so valuable, why spend time setting up a myth box...and well, why not? It's better and more featured than any solution I can buy off the shelf. And for a standard setup, if you don't have some oddball setup, it is working in ~1h. And the convenience of all my recordings in one place, with as many cheap front ends scattered throughout the house as I want...for no extra monthly fees, unlike the cable company.

_________________
"The amount of time needed to solve a problem is inversely proportionate to the complexity of the solution" -- Me

KM: R5.5
CPU: Athlon 3800+
Vid: nvidia 7300GT
Snd: Chaintech av-710
Tuner: PVR150
HD: 1000gb sata + 750gb sata + 500gb usb

Hmm, I reallly wasn't going to get into this trail but oh well. The noise is amazing a so far off the topic of Zap2It listings going away.

FWIW I think the guys are doing great trying to make something we initially had for free at what looks to be a reasonable price.

What it really amounts to period is, how important is that service? Some will say it is cheaper and easier than doing it myself. Others will say no way, it should be free.

My take, most people have already made up their minds on the matter, and I would bet dollars to donuts in most cases it wasn't a single person making the decision, it involved other decision making factors like, wife, kids, time, ease of use, work, etc, etc. the list goes on.

As far as using a pre manufactured, provided by the company DVR goes, hey they are fairly cheap, and they do work ok, although not a mythbox. But I don't desire to have someone that can spy on , include my demographic data, etc etc in their monthly reports. (remember TiVO?) And another thing, The companies usually get some influence from the people that have lots of money invested in the programming we watch. There already is a lot of traffic on and off about preventing things like commercial skipping how long until that abiltiy goes away in the commercial services?

I love this myth box and so does the family, but at the point where the companies providing the media have enough control through law and technology that i must be forced to watch all of their garbage too, it is time to close down the one eyed monster in the corner. Shut off the sewer pipe and save some electricity.

Until then I will support this community and everythig they do to help make our choices, our choices, and not the whim of others. if that costs a few pennies a day to make that happen and no one is mining my demographic data then I am all for it.

Regards!

I agree, though I have to say I snickered at the fact your name is bigbro

_________________
"The amount of time needed to solve a problem is inversely proportionate to the complexity of the solution" -- Me

KM: R5.5
CPU: Athlon 3800+
Vid: nvidia 7300GT
Snd: Chaintech av-710
Tuner: PVR150
HD: 1000gb sata + 750gb sata + 500gb usb

If my cablco DVR was $4 I might be tempted. But I'm in TWC territory and they want $10, per room. AND it only holds about 10 hours of HDTV. $5 for me, while more than I feel comfortable paying, is still my best option. If they reach 20/year it will be a no brainer.

It's a little strange psychologically. I feel much more comfortable dumping a few hundred bucks into an annual hardware refresh/array expansion on the myth server, but $5/month, every month, just doesn't sit well. All those little monthly fees we all shell out add up to a big overhead expense. I want to minimize my overhead and maximize my discretionary funds, something TWC seems determined to undermine.

I think this fee sucks the big one. I would pay it gladly if it were a one time fee. Otherwise, its just another monthly expense I was trying to get away from.

I agree with you, but it's a 'service' that I want. The inital cost is higher than I like, too, but in order for it to go down, I need to ensure that they know I WANT to use it.

I canceled my Cell phone, because the monthly costs kept going UP, regardless of how little I used it. If Schedules Direct's pricing doesn't decrease over time, as they hope, I may have to cancel it, too. Let's hope not!


I sort of agree with this. I'd like to see one annual payment, but we're stuck with the current plan. Let's hope it changes over time.

Monthly payments in general suck, but how else would we pay for: Electric, Phone, Water, Sewage, Trash, etc. It's all services, and we're bound (and gagged) with the payment terms. I could move to my own island, but the trash would pile up after a while and start stinking, eh?