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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 125
Video type: HDTV & SDTV
Type of system:combined front- and back-end
# Noise level: I keep thinking a (very large) tornado is coming

# CASE: generic junker
# PSU: 450W something.
# MOTHERBOARD:Gigabyte GA-7N400
# CPU: athlon xp - 1700. it's currently underclocked to 1150mhz.
# RAM: Corsair VS1GBKIT400 (2x 512MB) Value Select PC-3200 DDR R
# CPU HEATSINK: stock
# NORTHBRIDGE HEATSINK: stock
# CD/DVD-RW: imation dl dvd-rw
# HDD: samsung 80g papa
# GRAPHICS CARD: gforce 4mx400. 64mb. svideo out
# SOUNDCARD: onboard via analog
# TUNER CARD: Technisat Airstar 2 PCI times 1
# REMOTE CONTROL: Streamzap IR Remote


i know this is system is really old. but i thought id post it here in case anyone is looking to build a very cheap system. I also wanted to post because I used the ausdragon2 install script - and clearly this isn't dragon specs. in australia, using the ausdragon2 boot is the only way i've been able to get a working epg... im not linux savy.

ausdragon2 script assumes i have 2 airstar pci cards. i didn't for this system. the issue here is that (i believe) the fixegp script is tied to the tuner cards. During the initial backend setup, rather than delete the two tuner cards added by the script and add m own, i just leave them there. i finish the installation as though i had dragon hardware right to the end. the frontend starts and i get messages from mythtv complaining about not been able to access the backend.

from here.. i exit out of the frontend to fluxbox .. stop the backend, open an xterm and rerun the mythtv-setup. only now do i delete all the tuner cards, add my single digital card and then rescan for channels. I also need to assign the video source to the card.

this will work for other types of dvt tuner cards - so long as they use the "type selection?" in the backend setup.

from here i do a cold reboot and the box works perfectly. i installed firefox and used mythweb to delete extra channels. hd seems not to stutter to badly. sd is perfect... dvt doesnt use alot of cpu.

the other thing ausdragon2 does is use intelfix. This mobo is nforce2 chipset.. i'm not sure what that does.. but it didnt seem to affect the install. please let me know if it does something bad for my mobo.

for the tv out. i bought a $5 svideo - composite adapter, and i used the xorg.cong.nvidia.tv.out.sample file. given ive seem lots of people here suggest expensive adapters, I was very shocked at the adapter. it seems to work great. my digital tv quality through the box to my crap LG 68cm analog tv is dvd quality. if your tv doesnt have svideo input, id suggest buying a cheap adapter to composite to try. if its no good for you then look at something more expensive.. but try the cheap one first.

the sound is connected to the component input of my tv through a very cheap 3.5m - stereo component adapter.. also $5. works great as well. i havent tried the digital sound yet.

my habit is to visit auction houses. i buy all sorts of things and sell them on ebay for some beer money. i picked up the mobo / cpu / psu / case / of $5. I'll need to buy extra tuner cards, as I've poached this one out of my living room box. same for the remote.

the noise comes from the cpu fan.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 125
on the xorg.conf for tv out...

i only slightly modified the nvidia sample xorg.conf. I live in australia, so i changed it to pal. ive actually tried it with both, as my tv is only a few years old it can deal with pal and ntsc. there doesnt appear to be any different.

also reading the latest nvidia readme file (im not sure how often they are updated, but i have seem a few editions .. tragically theyre not dated).

(cut and pasted from nvidia readme. chapter 16 paragraph 3 and 4)

Because these TV modes only depend on the TV encoder and the TV standard, TV modes do not go through normal mode validation. The X configuration options HorizSync and VertRefresh are not used for TV mode validation.

Additionally, the NVIDIA driver contains a hardcoded list of mode sizes that it can drive for each combination of TV encoder and TV standard. Therefore, custom modelines in your X configuration file are ignored for TVs.

(also.. cut and paste from same doc)

To use your TV with X, there are several relevant X configuration options:

The Modes in the screen section of your X configuration file; you can use these to request any of the modes in the mode pool which the X driver created for this combination of TV standard and TV encoder. Examples include "640x480" and "800x600". If in doubt, use "nvidia-auto-select".

I just used "nvidia-auto-select". the problem is that it selected a fairly big resolution.. sometihng like 1024x768. i use standard def digital broadcasting. so ideally, id like to set x to 720x576 .. therefore no scaling. no idea how?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 561
Location: UK
Thanks for pointing to that info.

As long as you haven't got a modeline for the resolution if you add "720x576" to the Modes line in the appropriate "Display" subsection in the "Screen" Section, it should got to 720x576.
Though it does appear to use a Virtual Screen of 800x600.

Does anyone know how to set the virtual screen to 720x576 or switch it off?
Also how do you show the current resolution/frame rate/interlace status, nvidia-settings doesn't appear to show this.

Bruce S.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 821
Location: Melbourne, Australia
bruce_s01 wrote:
how do you show the current resolution/frame rate/interlace status, nvidia-settings doesn't appear to show this.

Bruce S.


G'day Bruce ;-)

"view /var/log/Xorg.log" tells you what it did during x initialisation. Go to the bottom (ctrl-G) and do a backwards search for "using" (?using). Not at my machine ATM, though, so if it comes up with nothing, look for "Using" instead.

Cheers

Mike

P.S. Steve, there is a quiet replacement AMD cpu cooler from Zalman, but hard to find now, and of course increases your costs somewhat

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Australian Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 561
Location: UK
I've already had a look at that Xorg.log file, no sign of the above. All I find related to this is the following:
Code:
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "NoLogo" "1"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "ConnectedMonitor" "TV"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "TVStandard" "PAL-I"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "TVOutFormat" "SVIDEO"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "UseEdidDpi" "FALSE"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Option "DPI" "100 x 100"
(**) NVIDIA(0): Enabling RENDER acceleration
(**) NVIDIA(0): Forcing SVIDEO output
(**) NVIDIA(0): TV Standard string: "PAL-I"
(**) NVIDIA(0): ConnectedMonitor string: "TV"
(II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU GeForce 6600 at PCI:1:0:0
(--) NVIDIA(0): VideoRAM: 262144 kBytes
(--) NVIDIA(0): VideoBIOS: 05.43.02.16.00
(II) NVIDIA(0): Detected PCI Express Link width: 16X
(--) NVIDIA(0): Interlaced video modes are supported on this GPU
(--) NVIDIA(0): Connected display device(s) on GeForce 6600 at PCI:1:0:0:
(--) NVIDIA(0):     NVIDIA TV Encoder (TV-0)
(--) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA TV Encoder (TV-0): 400.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
(--) NVIDIA(0): TV encoder: NVIDIA
(II) NVIDIA(0): Assigned Display Device: TV-0
(WW) NVIDIA(0): No valid modes for "720x576@25i"; removing.
(II) NVIDIA(0): Validated modes:
(II) NVIDIA(0):     "800x600"
(II) NVIDIA(0):     "640x480"
(II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 800 x 600

(I returned my xorg.conf to my working but non optimal original)
And:
Code:
I) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "800x600"


I thought I had it working correctly, but apparently not.

Bruce S.

_________________
Updated 2019/10/26: AthlonII X2 265 Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3P
16Gb PC 1866 DDR3, 500GB+2TB+4TB SATA HDD,
SATA DVD-RW Asus DRW-24D5MT , NVIDIA GeForce GT1080
Hauppauage Nova-T 500, Nova-T LinHes R8.6.1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 125
manicmike wrote:

P.S. Steve, there is a quiet replacement AMD cpu cooler from Zalman, but hard to find now, and of course increases your costs somewhat


yeah .. at this point im not entirely certain what to do with it. might give away.. in which case they can worry about the noise. ive never had a athlon xp before... it is really loud.

i wasnt sure the gf mx 440 could do 720x576 resolution.. and i admit i havent tried on my gf7300. would be nice though as i've noticed although the tv out looks great for most things, there is some bluring when i watched the footy.. maybe that's because of some scaling involved .. maybe not. ill look at ur suggestion


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 821
Location: Melbourne, Australia
stevetv wrote:
ive never had a athlon xp before... it is really loud.

i wasnt sure the gf mx 440 could do 720x576 resolution.. and i admit i havent tried on my gf7300. would be nice though as i've noticed although the tv out looks great for most things, there is some bluring when i watched the footy.. maybe that's because of some scaling involved .. maybe not. ill look at ur suggestion


I gave my old one (2500XP+) to my girl. As a consequence, she requested a Dragon ASAP - cost me a fortune!
Should have told her to stick to the old vcr :-)

Mike

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 125
manicmike wrote:
stevetv wrote:
ive never had a athlon xp before... it is really loud.

i wasnt sure the gf mx 440 could do 720x576 resolution.. and i admit i havent tried on my gf7300. would be nice though as i've noticed although the tv out looks great for most things, there is some bluring when i watched the footy.. maybe that's because of some scaling involved .. maybe not. ill look at ur suggestion


I gave my old one (2500XP+) to my girl. As a consequence, she requested a Dragon ASAP - cost me a fortune!
Should have told her to stick to the old vcr :-)

Mike


:) ouch. I dodge even requests for dinner.

anyway.. i received a not very helpful email reply to a question i sent to nvidia regarding getting 720x576 resolution as a mode in my xorg.conf. their response was basically that 720x576 isnt a standard pc resolution. which is true (its not square pixals) .. this annoyed me. and i felt like replying with something along the lines of why the f!@# have a tv out then.

They did also say that a custom modeline may be able to be created.. but this disagrees with the readme file which says custom modelines are ignored .. below if from the readme file.

Code:
Additionally, the NVIDIA driver contains a hardcoded list of mode sizes that it can drive for each combination of TV encoder and TV standard. Therefore, custom modelines in your X configuration file are ignored for TVs.


i had presumed that simply because the gf mx 440 is a really old video card that setting X to pal or ntsc resolution was not possible.. but bruce, your card is much newer. I believe the reason is driver related.. not hardware.. has anyone got X to display pal or ntsc ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:18 pm
Posts: 1422
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I previously used a GF4 MX440 and had no problems running 800x600 on my Sony 68cm CRT. To fix the blurring problem you have to use de-interlacing, otherwise the rugby league looks like crap.

I am now using a GF4 MX4000 and it is driving the same TV at 1024x768:
Code:
(II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1024 x 768...
(II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "1024x768"


All using the Composite connectors on the video cards.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:22 am 
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Posts: 125
Girkers wrote:
I previously used a GF4 MX440 and had no problems running 800x600 on my Sony 68cm CRT. To fix the blurring problem you have to use de-interlacing, otherwise the rugby league looks like crap.

I am now using a GF4 MX4000 and it is driving the same TV at 1024x768:
Code:
(II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1024 x 768...
(II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "1024x768"


All using the Composite connectors on the video cards.


yes on the mx 440, when i get the nvidia drivers to "nvidia-auto-detect", it sets the screen resolution to 1024x768. which looks nice on the mythtv menus. but my (poor) understanding of this is that the SD digital broadcasting would need to be scaled up.. and that this would lead to a reduction in quality.

in the frontend menu, you can set the number of pixels for mythtv and playback. when i set that to 720x576, i believe ( i might be wrong) i got a perfect picture when watching footy. the problem is that it doesnt fill the screen.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:11 am 
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Posts: 852
Location: London, UK
Here is my PAL-I modeline which has worked well over the past few years for me.
On checking my xorg.conf I seem to have been experimenting with several other PAL modelines. However this one I made several years ago gave me the best picture.
Code:
Modeline "720x576"  26.57  720 736 808 8996 576 577 580 593 -HSync +VSync


Remember, the identifier for each mode needs to be listed at the end in the resolution section, or X won't know what resolution to run in.
As you can see this modeline is specified here at the front, (and I've commented out the 'standard displays resolutions):
Code:
SubSection "Display"
                Depth     24
                Modes "720x576" # "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection



Here are the additional modelines. I found them on the internet, give them a go - they may work.
Code:
ModeLine "720x576@60" 32.7  720 744 816 912  576 577 580 597
ModeLine "720x576i" 13.875  720 744 808 888  576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync interlace

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:08 am 
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Posts: 125
tophee wrote:
Here is my PAL-I modeline which has worked well over the past few years for me.
On checking my xorg.conf I seem to have been experimenting with several other PAL modelines. However this one I made several years ago gave me the best picture.
Code:
Modeline "720x576"  26.57  720 736 808 8996 576 577 580 593 -HSync +VSync




i think im getting confused. doesnt the nvidia readme file say that custom modelines are ignored when using tv out?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:28 am 
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Location: London, UK
Stevetv,
Dunno...
However, it appears to work. :D

-edited to be a little less obtuse.

What you have posted seems to suggest that custom modelines are ignored. While I have specified the PAL resolution in the 'display section' I have not done so without a custom modeline. If oyu are correct the modeline is not required on a SDTV.

Try it. I'd be interested to see if X starts correctly.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:40 am 
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Posts: 125
tophee wrote:
Stevetv,
Dunno...
However, it appears to work. :D


good enough for me. :) ... well.. almost. to me there seems a contradiction between what you .. and many others on the nvidia forum.. have done and what is said in the readme file. i think nvidia could do more work on their documentation regarding tv out.. though i guess its a dying art as we all have LCD now.

I'll have a crack at yours. hope its ok for me to ask more questions if i balls it up.

cheers.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:58 am 
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Location: London, UK
It'll be a case of blind leading blind, but no worries.

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